3 ms·

Speaking as a SaaS business owner that is real bad customer behavior. Is spending a couple of minute clicking "unsubscribe" too much work?

by mtmail 3y ago

capableweb 3y ago
Wouldn't it be the same if the card was rejected for any other reason, including that the card is no longer active, don't have enough funds or anything else? What makes this particular behavior "real bad customer behavior", compared to the other reasons a payment could be rejected?
- mtmail 3y ago
  A lot of services don't stop the day payment wasn't received but try for weeks to follow up, be automated or manual. In our (small scale) B2B SaaS we give benefit of doubt and the last thing we want is to stop access, which might break some production system on the customer side. I'm more concerned about the "I don't even bother". Some companies might hide their unsubscribe feature, that's frustrating, a lot others make it super easy.
  - capableweb 3y ago
    Ok, so what's the issue exactly? The person is no longer using the service, so won't matter if you retry one time one day then cancel VS retrying for weeks, their usage wouldn't impact you, and eventually the account will be deactivated/suspended?
    - kevincox 3y ago
      Maybe payment processors will charge significant fees for declined transactions and it may hurt your reputation with them, possibly resulting in overall fee increases or outright being kicked off of the platform.
      - capableweb 3y ago
        But again, that issue appears no matter what reason the card didn't work, it's not exclusive to someone who themselves "paused" the card and the business continued to try to charge them.
bonton89 3y ago
> Is spending a couple of minute clicking "unsubscribe" too much work? I can't speak to your business obviously but the couple minutes to unsubscribe is often actually finding a hidden support number (because they don't even have a way to unsubscribe otherwise) and getting stuck in some dead end phone tree game like the OP describes. Many companies make it easy to give them money but really hard to stop doing so. This is one of the reasons I try to avoid recurrent billing products altogether. I actually don't think I'd purchase them without a middle layer like privacy.com to mitigate these potential situations.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
chrisandchris 3y ago
I understand you (as a business owner myself), but asking that in a post about a company that won't let users cancel their plans... feels poetic?
duped 3y ago
Make it easier to unsubscribe instead of complaining.
jabroni_salad 3y ago
Fallacies SaaS business owners have about unsubscribing from things: * The unsubscribe buttons exists at all * The unsubscribe button is available to every customer * The unsubscribe buttons actually work * When something goes wrong, the company's support is useful and helps the customer unsubscribe. I'm sure you're one of the good ones, but i've been bitten too many times. Every subscription is believed to be on the same tier as gym memberships until proven otherwise. If I'm wrong, that's nice. If I'm right, I have all the levers.
ceejayoz 3y ago
Is gracefully handling a payment decline too much work? People do this because of "real bad SaaS behavior" in the past.
- RamblingCTO 3y ago
  > Is gracefully handling a payment decline too much work? It's not only that. If enough people do it and you pass a threshold you might get kicked out of stripe etc. So is it too much to ask to differentiate between good and bad businesses?
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > If enough people do it and you pass a threshold you might get kicked out of stripe etc. Stripe should be entirely capable of differentiating between first-time declines (which might be someone testing cards) and a previously good card used for recurring charges that's out of funds or no longer active. If your declines are well outside the industry norm because of the scenario we're talking about, I'd consider it a sign your unsubscribe process is too onerous or broken. > So is it too much to ask to differentiate between good and bad businesses? How am I going to know in advance if you're gonna put me through the ringer to cancel? It's a safety measure.
    - RamblingCTO 3y ago
      I understand your view and I'm very sorry what this world has come to in this regard. Doing business together is something I really value. So I can't blame you.
karaterobot 3y ago
Given that there are no laws against using credit cards this way, is bad customer behavior just defined as customers not doing what you want them to do? I would suggest that you should account for real customer behavior rather than just characterizing it as malicious, which does not seem like any kind of solution.

Speaking as a SaaS business owner that is real bad customer behavior. Is spending a couple of minute clicking "unsubscribe" too much work?

by mtmail 3y ago

Speaking as a SaaS business owner that is real bad customer behavior. Is spending a couple of minute clicking "unsubscribe" too much work?

capableweb 3y ago

Wouldn't it be the same if the card was rejected for any other reason, including that the card is no longer active, don't have enough funds or anything else? What makes this particular behavior "real bad customer behavior", compared to the other reasons a payment could be rejected?

mtmail 3y ago
A lot of services don't stop the day payment wasn't received but try for weeks to follow up, be automated or manual. In our (small scale) B2B SaaS we give benefit of doubt and the last thing we want is to stop access, which might break some production system on the customer side. I'm more concerned about the "I don't even bother". Some companies might hide their unsubscribe feature, that's frustrating, a lot others make it super easy.
- capableweb 3y ago
  Ok, so what's the issue exactly? The person is no longer using the service, so won't matter if you retry one time one day then cancel VS retrying for weeks, their usage wouldn't impact you, and eventually the account will be deactivated/suspended?
  - kevincox 3y ago
    Maybe payment processors will charge significant fees for declined transactions and it may hurt your reputation with them, possibly resulting in overall fee increases or outright being kicked off of the platform.
    - capableweb 3y ago
      But again, that issue appears no matter what reason the card didn't work, it's not exclusive to someone who themselves "paused" the card and the business continued to try to charge them.

bonton89 3y ago

> Is spending a couple of minute clicking "unsubscribe" too much work? I can't speak to your business obviously but the couple minutes to unsubscribe is often actually finding a hidden support number (because they don't even have a way to unsubscribe otherwise) and getting stuck in some dead end phone tree game like the OP describes. Many companies make it easy to give them money but really hard to stop doing so. This is one of the reasons I try to avoid recurrent billing products altogether. I actually don't think I'd purchase them without a middle layer like privacy.com to mitigate these potential situations.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

chrisandchris 3y ago

I understand you (as a business owner myself), but asking that in a post about a company that won't let users cancel their plans... feels poetic?

duped 3y ago

Make it easier to unsubscribe instead of complaining.

jabroni_salad 3y ago

Fallacies SaaS business owners have about unsubscribing from things: * The unsubscribe buttons exists at all * The unsubscribe button is available to every customer * The unsubscribe buttons actually work * When something goes wrong, the company's support is useful and helps the customer unsubscribe. I'm sure you're one of the good ones, but i've been bitten too many times. Every subscription is believed to be on the same tier as gym memberships until proven otherwise. If I'm wrong, that's nice. If I'm right, I have all the levers.

ceejayoz 3y ago

Is gracefully handling a payment decline too much work? People do this because of "real bad SaaS behavior" in the past.

RamblingCTO 3y ago
> Is gracefully handling a payment decline too much work? It's not only that. If enough people do it and you pass a threshold you might get kicked out of stripe etc. So is it too much to ask to differentiate between good and bad businesses?
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  > If enough people do it and you pass a threshold you might get kicked out of stripe etc. Stripe should be entirely capable of differentiating between first-time declines (which might be someone testing cards) and a previously good card used for recurring charges that's out of funds or no longer active. If your declines are well outside the industry norm because of the scenario we're talking about, I'd consider it a sign your unsubscribe process is too onerous or broken. > So is it too much to ask to differentiate between good and bad businesses? How am I going to know in advance if you're gonna put me through the ringer to cancel? It's a safety measure.
  - RamblingCTO 3y ago
    I understand your view and I'm very sorry what this world has come to in this regard. Doing business together is something I really value. So I can't blame you.

karaterobot 3y ago

Given that there are no laws against using credit cards this way, is bad customer behavior just defined as customers not doing what you want them to do? I would suggest that you should account for real customer behavior rather than just characterizing it as malicious, which does not seem like any kind of solution.