5 ms·
I'm the author of a (very) new NoSQL datastore called Artifact (http://zv.github.com/artifact/ http://zv.github.com/artifact/), that, admittedly, is very protot
by ZephyrP 15y ago
I'm the author of a (very) new NoSQL datastore called Artifact (http://zv.github.com/artifact/ http://zv.github.com/artifact/), that, admittedly, is very prototypical and is not representative of MongoDB, Couch, Riak or any of the other major players. I'm also a vulnerability researcher who makes his way in the world finding and dissecting security bugs and holes in network infrastructure.
I feel this article misrepresents a lot of facts about security in the same way that articles discussing the relative security of passwords misrepresent security.
Here's what I mean
Question: Whats the most obvious way to attack a system? Answer: Guess Passwords.
Because this is the most obvious way to attack computer systems, an undue amount of attention is paid to the topic because it's the only way we're aware of. In reality the vast majority of systems compromised happen because of memory corruption vulnerabilities, or in recent years, (predominantly) web bugs like SQLi and LFI. Explaining the dynamics of taking control of a program through smashing the stack and getting EIP is tough, at least in contrast to explaining how guessing passwords works. So people worry that "their passwords aren't secure" despite that any real black hat deleted D8.dic off their harddrive years ago. Thus, theres a million articles and sites on how secure your password is, but not that many to check if you've got address randomization enabled.
Are Blackhats trying to read your NoSQL stores after staging an internal attack? Possibly, but not nearly as likely as the fact that you've got xp_cmdshell enabled. Attacking MongoDB is tractable, and provides numerous opportunities for a wide nop sled w/ memory mapped files and more than enough opportunity for use-after-free attacks in objects, but the same (and then some!) can be said of any modern SQL database.
The fact that query strings are safe in every major NoSQL datastore is such a massive advantage over SQL DBs that, even if you're using prepared statements, NoSQL is almost assuredly more secure in a day to day context, except against zero-days (Which we can reasonably say are less frequent in established datastores, irrespective of their design decisions).
The fact that he quasi-attacks stateful firewall security in the article is pretty much baseless, clever TCP bugs are long since worn out, and all the things that mainstream developers have thought is clever like firewalk(8) haven't been effective since I was 11. It's not unreasonable to trust major commercial firewalls for anything you'd trust SSH for. It's not reasonable to trust C/C++ applications in general, as even the most valorous efforts at secure software have turned up short (The beautiful irony here may be that SSH, as trusted as it is, has had numerous pre-auth exploits in it, as it is written in C++)
Finally, let's be real, as an article aside -- SSL does absolutely nothing. Every single year there are multiple complete breaks in what SSL is supposed to do, both practical and theoretical. These complete breaks are regularly released with executables, so don't give me that "We're only raising the ba-" Nope, ASLR and W^X raise the bar, you could argue SSL widens your attack surface on anything but HTTP transactions. Furthermore, if MITM is the biggest thing you're worried about then I'd encourage you to download any of the latest XML parsing libraries or PDF readers to rectify that -- it's tragically only minor exaggeration to say attacking these complex, loosely interacting components such as parsers to stage a more complex internal attack is organizational computer hacking in 2012.
- eternalban 15y ago(off topic: curious if you evaluated riak-core, and if yes, why did you pass on it?)
- tptacek 15y agoAll firewalk did was port scan through firewalls. It wasn't some magic trick that got you root on them. I don't know what you're trying to say with regards to SSL, or how it can be reasonably compared to runtime hardening.
- ZephyrP 15y agoMost firewalls can be configured to block packets with a TTL greater than the route hop count back or simply never allow traffic through even if the TTL is the hop count + X (where X is distance to internal host, presumably 1) I didn't mean to imply TTL incrementation was magic remote root. As far as SSL, you're right in that it is a bit tangential. I'm just trying to illustrate the huge security flaws that, in my eyes, stand in front of "can someone sniff my traffic".
- tptacek 15y agoWhat huge security flaws in TLS are you referring to? (One of my business partners is the author of firewalk).
- ZephyrP 15y agoI'm a mere pup in San Francisco, you're Thomas Ptacek. You probably have a wikipedia page and personal islands. I could suffer an untimely fate if you so much as looked at me wrong. What I mean to say is that your authority is better than mine on this - so if you think SSL is secure, then I'll start telling people SSL is secure. I just think the numerous vulnerabilities unearthed so far, ranging from the eminently practical (Compromise a CA!) to the blindingly obvious (SSLStrip) constitute a poor record.
- tptacek 15y ago