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I negociated a 4-day workweek for my first job when I was 23. 25 years later, I wouldn't do it. I'm worried for my retirement, I don't think I'll have enough s

I negociated a 4-day workweek for my first job when I was 23. 25 years later, I wouldn't do it. I'm worried for my retirement, I don't think I'll have enough saving to live in a safe and convenient place, and have access to good healthcare. This is the type of things you don't think of when you just graduate and are used to the student worklife.

onion2k 3y ago
A 4 day work week is not '4 days work for 80% of the money'. A 4 day work week today means working 4 days a week for the same money as a person working 5 days a week. Depending on the company that's either 10 hours a day for 4 days a week, or more commonly it's an 8 hour day for 4 days a week with an assumption (proven in many studies) than people work harder with less downtime for that 8 hours so consequently get the same amount of work done as their 10-hour-4-days and 5-day-week counterparts.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  > A 4 day work week today means working 4 days a week for the same money as a person working 5 days a week Sure, but you'll have even less hope for a salary increase next year, since this is basically what it is. This was the theory behind France's move to the 35-hour workweek, too. They also expected companies to hire more people to compensate for less work being done. Didn't work out as expected.
  - ramraj07 3y ago
    What happened in France? The way I see it, as programmers we will be far more productive working fewer days per week and just taking more time to relax. If this assumption is accurate you have to do nothing to compensate.
    - vladvasiliu 3y ago
      Sure, I think there's a big difference between programmers (and similar) and the situation in France at the time, when most people affected by this were factory workers, who didn't have themselves much influence over how productive they were (aside from the obvious issues of not showing up / slacking off). Basically, "nothing" happened. The expected drop in unemployment never materialized. And although pay rises never were an expected effect of the change (from what I know), they were negatively impacted. I'm not knowledgeable enough in those matters, so I may be off base, but it would seem that companies started to be less "competitive" when the rule started to be applied, in 2000-2002. But from what I've read on the subject, none of the sides (for and against the measure) can prove that it was undoubtedly a good or a bad thing. > The way I see it, as programmers we will be far more productive working fewer days per week and just taking more time to relax. If this assumption is accurate you have to do nothing to compensate. I agree with this. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to make this kind of decision. And it's pretty clear to me that many managers don't think this way, and somehow figure that your productivity is roughly constant and proportional to the time your butt spends in your seat (at least up to a point).
    - yodsanklai 3y ago
      Nothing, 35 hours week don't apply to us, but we have 9-10 more paid holiday than before. As for impact on salary, hard to say, it wasn't an A/B experiment. We can only speculate.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  > more commonly it's an 8 hour day for 4 days a week with an assumption (proven in many studies) When I looked at these studies, the productivity was measured by company's revenue, so it was pretty much useless. > people work harder with less downtime for that 8 hours so consequently get the same amount of work done as their 10-hour-4-days and 5-day-week counterparts. Maybe it works that way for some people, but I doubt for all. Personal anecdote - I don't work full 40 with full intensity, I do slack a lot. But it's not like I work hard for the first 32 hours and then slack all Friday. It's more like I work hard for 2 hours and then slack for the next hour, because the mental load is just too intense. Rinse, repeat. Another day off won't do much for me in terms of productivity. On the opposite, I believe I'm less productive on Mondays and even less after longer holidays (I believe it's basically loss of context and "work mood"). I personally also do programming in my free time (usually at least an hour a day), so it's not like the overall load is too much. Having said that, I would love to have a 4-day week, especially without lost compensation. But to me this idea that there's no productivity loss looks to me very much like wishful thinking.
  - saulpw 3y ago
    > Personal anecdote - I don't work full 40 with full intensity, I do slack a lot. But it's not like I work hard for the first 32 hours and then slack all Friday. It's more like I work hard for 2 hours and then slack for the next hour, because the mental load is just too intense. I felt this way too, but it's a reaction to chronic brain tiredness. When I was working a 4 day workweek, I remember noticing on Tuesday that I only had a couple of days until the end of the week, so I better buckle down if I wanted to get something done. And then I did. Having that reliable 3-day weekend meant that I really focused on work when I was at work. And I was able to schedule "bank appointments" on my Friday off, instead of having to take time during the workweek. I know it seems like wishful thinking, but I was demonstrably more productive, more sustainably, in that 4-day/week job, than any 5-day/week job I've ever had.
  - inputError 3y ago
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onion2k 3y ago

A 4 day work week is not '4 days work for 80% of the money'. A 4 day work week today means working 4 days a week for the same money as a person working 5 days a week. Depending on the company that's either 10 hours a day for 4 days a week, or more commonly it's an 8 hour day for 4 days a week with an assumption (proven in many studies) than people work harder with less downtime for that 8 hours so consequently get the same amount of work done as their 10-hour-4-days and 5-day-week counterparts.

vladvasiliu 3y ago
> A 4 day work week today means working 4 days a week for the same money as a person working 5 days a week Sure, but you'll have even less hope for a salary increase next year, since this is basically what it is. This was the theory behind France's move to the 35-hour workweek, too. They also expected companies to hire more people to compensate for less work being done. Didn't work out as expected.
- ramraj07 3y ago
  What happened in France? The way I see it, as programmers we will be far more productive working fewer days per week and just taking more time to relax. If this assumption is accurate you have to do nothing to compensate.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    Sure, I think there's a big difference between programmers (and similar) and the situation in France at the time, when most people affected by this were factory workers, who didn't have themselves much influence over how productive they were (aside from the obvious issues of not showing up / slacking off). Basically, "nothing" happened. The expected drop in unemployment never materialized. And although pay rises never were an expected effect of the change (from what I know), they were negatively impacted. I'm not knowledgeable enough in those matters, so I may be off base, but it would seem that companies started to be less "competitive" when the rule started to be applied, in 2000-2002. But from what I've read on the subject, none of the sides (for and against the measure) can prove that it was undoubtedly a good or a bad thing. > The way I see it, as programmers we will be far more productive working fewer days per week and just taking more time to relax. If this assumption is accurate you have to do nothing to compensate. I agree with this. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to make this kind of decision. And it's pretty clear to me that many managers don't think this way, and somehow figure that your productivity is roughly constant and proportional to the time your butt spends in your seat (at least up to a point).
  - yodsanklai 3y ago
    Nothing, 35 hours week don't apply to us, but we have 9-10 more paid holiday than before. As for impact on salary, hard to say, it wasn't an A/B experiment. We can only speculate.
The_Colonel 3y ago
> more commonly it's an 8 hour day for 4 days a week with an assumption (proven in many studies) When I looked at these studies, the productivity was measured by company's revenue, so it was pretty much useless. > people work harder with less downtime for that 8 hours so consequently get the same amount of work done as their 10-hour-4-days and 5-day-week counterparts. Maybe it works that way for some people, but I doubt for all. Personal anecdote - I don't work full 40 with full intensity, I do slack a lot. But it's not like I work hard for the first 32 hours and then slack all Friday. It's more like I work hard for 2 hours and then slack for the next hour, because the mental load is just too intense. Rinse, repeat. Another day off won't do much for me in terms of productivity. On the opposite, I believe I'm less productive on Mondays and even less after longer holidays (I believe it's basically loss of context and "work mood"). I personally also do programming in my free time (usually at least an hour a day), so it's not like the overall load is too much. Having said that, I would love to have a 4-day week, especially without lost compensation. But to me this idea that there's no productivity loss looks to me very much like wishful thinking.
- saulpw 3y ago
  > Personal anecdote - I don't work full 40 with full intensity, I do slack a lot. But it's not like I work hard for the first 32 hours and then slack all Friday. It's more like I work hard for 2 hours and then slack for the next hour, because the mental load is just too intense. I felt this way too, but it's a reaction to chronic brain tiredness. When I was working a 4 day workweek, I remember noticing on Tuesday that I only had a couple of days until the end of the week, so I better buckle down if I wanted to get something done. And then I did. Having that reliable 3-day weekend meant that I really focused on work when I was at work. And I was able to schedule "bank appointments" on my Friday off, instead of having to take time during the workweek. I know it seems like wishful thinking, but I was demonstrably more productive, more sustainably, in that 4-day/week job, than any 5-day/week job I've ever had.
- inputError 3y ago
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