5 ms·

Thats not true, Caroline and the main conspirators pled guilty and took plea deals, this is not immunity, they will still be sentenced to prison.

cornholio 3y ago
They handed Elison a plea deal waving all charges except criminal tax violations, which she's unlikely to be found guilty of. However, she was the principal co-conspirator, presiding over a bucket shop that drained 7 billion directly out of the accounts of FTX. As a Stanford finance graduate with trading experience, it's ridiculous to claim she was not aware of the "backdoor" source of Alameda's liquidity and the massive loses they accrued gambling with the money of FTX customers.
- tropicalbeach 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - Craighead 3y ago
    [dead]
- semiquaver 3y ago
  > They handed Elison a plea deal waving all charges except criminal tax violations This is false. She pled guilty to wire fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud, conspiracy to commit commodities fraud, conspiracy to commit securities fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering. The crimes she pled to carry a maximum sentence of 110 years. She was never charged with tax violations. She will receive credit for her testimony but she will certainly do prison time. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495753-caroline-ellison-plea-agreement https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495753-caroline-el... https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-attorney-announces-extradition-ftx-founder-samuel-bankman-fried-united https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-attorney-...
  - verteu 3y ago
    Agreed -- I believe the confusion comes from this sentence in the document: "Moreover, if the defendant fully complies with the understandings specified in this Agreement, the defendant will not be further prosecuted criminally by this Office for any crimes, except for criminal tax violations, related to her participation in [the FTX scandal]." IIUC, by "further" they mean "in addition to the 7 counts she pled guilty to [and could serve jailtime for]."
  - cornholio 3y ago
    It's not false, it's my conjecture. Ellison just spent a total of 14 hours testifying against SBF and, according to court reporters present, denying her own responsibility for planning the fraud and saying she was simply directed to perform various criminal actions she was not aware the full implications of. It's nonsensical to believe she accepted responsibility for anything more in her plea deal, which will be the sole basis of her sentence. The charges she faces before the plea deal carried a maximum sentence of 110 years and no mandatory minimum. According to several experts (*, she will likely walk away with no jail time or, at most, a few years in a minimum security jail. The prosecution against her was basically stayed - again, my conjecture - as we will find out in a few weeks time. (* https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-03/sbf-s-inner-circle-delivered-a-conviction-what-s-next-for-them https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-03/sbf-s-inn...
    - therealcamino 3y ago
      No, it's just false. She pleaded guilty to 7 charges already. We don't know what she'll be sentenced to for those crimes. That's a completely separate issue. She's already pleaded guilty. The source is the Justice Department. https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-attorney-announces-extradition-ftx-founder-samuel-bankman-fried-united https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-attorney-... "CAROLINE ELLISON, 28, is charged with and has pled guilty to two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, each of which carry a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison; two counts of wire fraud, each of which carry a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison; one count of conspiracy to commit commodities fraud, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison; one count of conspiracy to commit securities fraud, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison; and one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering, which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. ... "The statutory maximum sentences are prescribed by Congress and are provided here for informational purposes only, as any sentencing of the defendants will be determined by a judge. "
- ncallaway 3y ago
  > They handed Elison a plea deal waving all charges except criminal tax violations, which she's unlikely to be found guilty of. As someone else said, this is factually false on the charges she pled to. Mainly, though, I don’t know what you mean by “which she’s unlikely to be found guilty of”. When someone pleads guilty, if the judge accepts the plea, there is no other finding of fact. She already is guilty. That’s what pleading is. She’s already been found guilty (by virtue of her plea). What hasn’t happened is her sentencing.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    They seem to be confusing an agreement not to seek further FTX-related charges except potential tax fraud charges with waiving the existing charges which she instead actually pled guilty to.
- csmiller 3y ago
  I believe she studied mathematics, not finance fwiw

cornholio 3y ago

They handed Elison a plea deal waving all charges except criminal tax violations, which she's unlikely to be found guilty of. However, she was the principal co-conspirator, presiding over a bucket shop that drained 7 billion directly out of the accounts of FTX. As a Stanford finance graduate with trading experience, it's ridiculous to claim she was not aware of the "backdoor" source of Alameda's liquidity and the massive loses they accrued gambling with the money of FTX customers.

tropicalbeach 3y ago
[flagged]
- Craighead 3y ago
  [dead]
semiquaver 3y ago
> They handed Elison a plea deal waving all charges except criminal tax violations This is false. She pled guilty to wire fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud, conspiracy to commit commodities fraud, conspiracy to commit securities fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering. The crimes she pled to carry a maximum sentence of 110 years. She was never charged with tax violations. She will receive credit for her testimony but she will certainly do prison time. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495753-caroline-ellison-plea-agreement https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495753-caroline-el... https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-attorney-announces-extradition-ftx-founder-samuel-bankman-fried-united https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-attorney-...
- verteu 3y ago
  Agreed -- I believe the confusion comes from this sentence in the document: "Moreover, if the defendant fully complies with the understandings specified in this Agreement, the defendant will not be further prosecuted criminally by this Office for any crimes, except for criminal tax violations, related to her participation in [the FTX scandal]." IIUC, by "further" they mean "in addition to the 7 counts she pled guilty to [and could serve jailtime for]."
- cornholio 3y ago
  It's not false, it's my conjecture. Ellison just spent a total of 14 hours testifying against SBF and, according to court reporters present, denying her own responsibility for planning the fraud and saying she was simply directed to perform various criminal actions she was not aware the full implications of. It's nonsensical to believe she accepted responsibility for anything more in her plea deal, which will be the sole basis of her sentence. The charges she faces before the plea deal carried a maximum sentence of 110 years and no mandatory minimum. According to several experts (*, she will likely walk away with no jail time or, at most, a few years in a minimum security jail. The prosecution against her was basically stayed - again, my conjecture - as we will find out in a few weeks time. (* https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-03/sbf-s-inner-circle-delivered-a-conviction-what-s-next-for-them https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-03/sbf-s-inn...
  - therealcamino 3y ago
    No, it's just false. She pleaded guilty to 7 charges already. We don't know what she'll be sentenced to for those crimes. That's a completely separate issue. She's already pleaded guilty. The source is the Justice Department. https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-attorney-announces-extradition-ftx-founder-samuel-bankman-fried-united https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/united-states-attorney-... "CAROLINE ELLISON, 28, is charged with and has pled guilty to two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, each of which carry a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison; two counts of wire fraud, each of which carry a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison; one count of conspiracy to commit commodities fraud, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison; one count of conspiracy to commit securities fraud, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison; and one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering, which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. ... "The statutory maximum sentences are prescribed by Congress and are provided here for informational purposes only, as any sentencing of the defendants will be determined by a judge. "
ncallaway 3y ago
> They handed Elison a plea deal waving all charges except criminal tax violations, which she's unlikely to be found guilty of. As someone else said, this is factually false on the charges she pled to. Mainly, though, I don’t know what you mean by “which she’s unlikely to be found guilty of”. When someone pleads guilty, if the judge accepts the plea, there is no other finding of fact. She already is guilty. That’s what pleading is. She’s already been found guilty (by virtue of her plea). What hasn’t happened is her sentencing.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  They seem to be confusing an agreement not to seek further FTX-related charges except potential tax fraud charges with waiving the existing charges which she instead actually pled guilty to.
csmiller 3y ago
I believe she studied mathematics, not finance fwiw