4 ms·

I bought a car recently (June), and ended up not getting an electric car. Why? My criteria are pretty simple: - Must seat 6 (I have 4 kids, I'm not going to st

I bought a car recently (June), and ended up not getting an electric car. Why? My criteria are pretty simple: - Must seat 6 (I have 4 kids, I'm not going to start doing 2 trips) - Must be below 100k CAD (y'know, budget. I'm still way stretching at this price point.) I could not find a single EV that fit these 2 criteria. Tesla had a 7-seater option on the Y, which I did actually order, but then they canceled my order as they stopped selling the 7-seater in Canada. In the end, I had to fall back to the closest thing, a PHEV. Even there, the choices are pretty much only the Mitshubishi Outlander or the Chrysler Pacifica, and I'm not a SUV guy so I got the Pacifica. Manufacturers need to stop competing on the same exact car (boring 5-seater mini-SUVs) and start offering some variety, maybe they'll see more sales.

gruez 3y ago
>Manufacturers need to stop competing on the same exact car (boring 5-seater mini-SUVs) and start offering some variety, maybe they'll see more sales. Okay but you have to admit that having 4 kids is pretty atypical. Why would it make more sense for car companies to target more niche segments for electric vehicles? Are electric drivetrains somehow more suited for 7 seater cars?
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  > Why would it make more sense for car companies to target more niche segments for electric vehicles? This thread is about failed EV plans, so I guess with hindsight we should be saying that targeting the mainstream segments didn't make much sense. But I guess if you want some reasons - niche segments are poorly served. A "pretty good" EV should stand out; in a highly competitive market a "pretty good" EV is one of the worst choices available. Niche segments are not high volume. You don't need a battery gigafactory to meet demand. You won't have multi-year waitlists and huge dealer markups that turn definite buyers into angry non-customers.
- emilecantin 3y ago
  Well, around 1/6th of families in Canada have 3 or more children[1]; that's not the majority but it's not "atypical" either. Add to that the number of stepfamilies, which can get pretty big, and I think you're looking at a sizable segment. 3-child families might fit in a sedan or crossover, but they'll be much more comfortable in a minivan or similar, and most of them actually do shop for bigger, 3-row vehicles. I think it would make much more sense for a manufacturer to try and get a good percentage of that niche rather than compete and get a sliver of the mainstream. That's the advice we generally tell new freelancers (find a niche) and it also applies here. I don't think there's any particular considerations around electric drivetrains and 7-seaters that would change suitability, except 2 things: - bigger vehicles do consume more energy, but you have a lot more room for batteries. - Minivan buyers aren't particularly concerned about performance; you don't have to make the fastest thing out there and it'll still sell. (up to a point, though: I rejected the Sienna after a test drive because it was just so sluggish and noisy.) [1]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=9810012401 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=981001...
bryanlarsen 3y ago
If you could have waited 6-12 months you could have got a Kia EV9. Toyota, Volvo, Ford and GM have also promised 3 row SUV's in the next year or two. 5 seater mini-SUV's are the main profit driver in the market so it's not surprising they started there. It was more surprising 5 years ago when basically all you could get for EV's were small cars.
- emilecantin 3y ago
  I was driving my mother-in-law's Honda Civic. I couldn't wait 6 months, I needed a car NOW. I called up the dealership in the morning after seeing a Pacifica in stock on their website, and I was rolling off the lot with it that very same afternoon. There's always something "just over the corner", but my previous vehicle buy was in 2021 and the options were the exact same... I will seriously consider a EV9 (and the VW ID.Buzz) once I can test-drive one. I haven't seen any prices for any of these yet, though. If they're 150k CAD I just can't afford it, so they'll join the Tesla X, the Volvo whatever90 and the Rivians of this world. Also, why don't they make minivans? It's people I need to move; 3-row SUVs are awful for that. Kia should've electrified their new Carnival when they refreshed it.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    I hear you. I'm currently driving a 10 year old Mazda 5 microvan and my wife drives a Tesla. If I had a good option to replace the Mazda 5 I probably would, but nobody sells anything like it in North America, gasoline or EV. 4 passengers + luggage or 6 passengers without fits our needs perfectly. I guess I'll keep driving it until it falls apart and then I'll be in a similar dilemma you were.
justaman 3y ago
There needs to be an EV van at prices comparable to an ICE. An AWD Crysler or Toyota is around 60usd. Most middle class families can't afford a regular ICE van today with that interest rates are at.
1970-01-01 3y ago
You're just too early, the VW Buzz meets all your specs and will be there in one more year.

gruez 3y ago

>Manufacturers need to stop competing on the same exact car (boring 5-seater mini-SUVs) and start offering some variety, maybe they'll see more sales. Okay but you have to admit that having 4 kids is pretty atypical. Why would it make more sense for car companies to target more niche segments for electric vehicles? Are electric drivetrains somehow more suited for 7 seater cars?

Kon-Peki 3y ago
> Why would it make more sense for car companies to target more niche segments for electric vehicles? This thread is about failed EV plans, so I guess with hindsight we should be saying that targeting the mainstream segments didn't make much sense. But I guess if you want some reasons - niche segments are poorly served. A "pretty good" EV should stand out; in a highly competitive market a "pretty good" EV is one of the worst choices available. Niche segments are not high volume. You don't need a battery gigafactory to meet demand. You won't have multi-year waitlists and huge dealer markups that turn definite buyers into angry non-customers.
emilecantin 3y ago
Well, around 1/6th of families in Canada have 3 or more children[1]; that's not the majority but it's not "atypical" either. Add to that the number of stepfamilies, which can get pretty big, and I think you're looking at a sizable segment. 3-child families might fit in a sedan or crossover, but they'll be much more comfortable in a minivan or similar, and most of them actually do shop for bigger, 3-row vehicles. I think it would make much more sense for a manufacturer to try and get a good percentage of that niche rather than compete and get a sliver of the mainstream. That's the advice we generally tell new freelancers (find a niche) and it also applies here. I don't think there's any particular considerations around electric drivetrains and 7-seaters that would change suitability, except 2 things: - bigger vehicles do consume more energy, but you have a lot more room for batteries. - Minivan buyers aren't particularly concerned about performance; you don't have to make the fastest thing out there and it'll still sell. (up to a point, though: I rejected the Sienna after a test drive because it was just so sluggish and noisy.) [1]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=9810012401 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=981001...

bryanlarsen 3y ago

If you could have waited 6-12 months you could have got a Kia EV9. Toyota, Volvo, Ford and GM have also promised 3 row SUV's in the next year or two. 5 seater mini-SUV's are the main profit driver in the market so it's not surprising they started there. It was more surprising 5 years ago when basically all you could get for EV's were small cars.

emilecantin 3y ago
I was driving my mother-in-law's Honda Civic. I couldn't wait 6 months, I needed a car NOW. I called up the dealership in the morning after seeing a Pacifica in stock on their website, and I was rolling off the lot with it that very same afternoon. There's always something "just over the corner", but my previous vehicle buy was in 2021 and the options were the exact same... I will seriously consider a EV9 (and the VW ID.Buzz) once I can test-drive one. I haven't seen any prices for any of these yet, though. If they're 150k CAD I just can't afford it, so they'll join the Tesla X, the Volvo whatever90 and the Rivians of this world. Also, why don't they make minivans? It's people I need to move; 3-row SUVs are awful for that. Kia should've electrified their new Carnival when they refreshed it.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  I hear you. I'm currently driving a 10 year old Mazda 5 microvan and my wife drives a Tesla. If I had a good option to replace the Mazda 5 I probably would, but nobody sells anything like it in North America, gasoline or EV. 4 passengers + luggage or 6 passengers without fits our needs perfectly. I guess I'll keep driving it until it falls apart and then I'll be in a similar dilemma you were.

justaman 3y ago

There needs to be an EV van at prices comparable to an ICE. An AWD Crysler or Toyota is around 60usd. Most middle class families can't afford a regular ICE van today with that interest rates are at.

1970-01-01 3y ago

You're just too early, the VW Buzz meets all your specs and will be there in one more year.