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> For a daily driver, if you have a garage or a place to plug in daily, EVs are just a better experience than gas cars. The core issue is that it's not the cas

> For a daily driver, if you have a garage or a place to plug in daily, EVs are just a better experience than gas cars. The core issue is that it's not the case for most people. If you can afford an EV, have a house with a garage where you can plug in the car - you're basically a corner case. The reality for most people in Europe: car should cost 5 - 10k EUR (used), 10 - 20k new, it'll be parked on the street and need to be practical both for driving in a city as well as for longer trips. We're still pretty far away from any of these goals. I imagine something like Skoda Enyaq, with 800 km - 1000 km of range, for 25 - 30'000 EUR max, with tax included (an equivalent to VW Golf Variant).

throwaway2037 3y ago
it'll be parked on the street Wait, "most" (most than 50%) of cars are parked on the street in Europe? Bollocks. I guess max 15-20%.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Unless there's been some EU-wide massive secret project to construct underground parkings under most existing buildings that I'm not aware of, then yeah, most. We don't really have US style suburbs, rural areas are a rounding error for this calculation, so that leaves us with urban areas. Garages in apartment buildings are a luxury, only some new developments have underground parking, so most cars stay either on building-adjacent open-air parking zones, or are parked on the street.
- 4gotunameagain 3y ago
  A claim which is very easy to gather information for. Just open google maps, satellite view, and look into any major European city. Given the known ~70% urbanisation of the EU, it seems feasible. From my own, anecdotal experience, I would say way more than most cars are parked outside. Most of the times a block away. Some annoying times, much farther.
- skrunch 3y ago
  Page 72 here: https://publications.europa.eu/resource/cellar/2d5d968f-4f4c-4ee0-82e2-a7a136dfd187.0001.02/DOC_1 https://publications.europa.eu/resource/cellar/2d5d968f-4f4c... 45-55% in most countries (France seems like an outlier), but even that is above 20%.
  - michpoch 3y ago
    The data is unfortunately not granular enough. It combines "reserved spots" and garages. A reserved spot could be an open parking lot with an assigned number. It doesn't help with the charging at all. I'd guesstimate that the cars parked "american style" (in a private garage or on the driveway of the house) in Europe is < 10%. You really need to live in a small town or a village to find these setups.
- michpoch 3y ago
  Absolutely yes. Unless you live in a single-family house (which in the circle of my friends it'd be just one couple), or you live in one of the newest apartment blocks, you're definitely keeping your car on the street or on a parking lot in front of your building. I can see a lot of articles / comments on various portals where the authors are explaining how easy is to use EVs - you charge it in your own garage over night and then drive to office or to do groceries. I can't overstate how unusual use-case it is. Most people where I live (Switzerland) would never consider using a car to get to work. We walk / cycle / take a bus, tram or train. Same with groceries. The cars are on the street, you use it maybe once every week or two, to go skiing, move something large or go for a longer trip. Average yearly distance per car is ~13'000 km (~8'000 miles). Using an EV is really a huge huge hassle.

throwaway2037 3y ago

it'll be parked on the street Wait, "most" (most than 50%) of cars are parked on the street in Europe? Bollocks. I guess max 15-20%.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
Unless there's been some EU-wide massive secret project to construct underground parkings under most existing buildings that I'm not aware of, then yeah, most. We don't really have US style suburbs, rural areas are a rounding error for this calculation, so that leaves us with urban areas. Garages in apartment buildings are a luxury, only some new developments have underground parking, so most cars stay either on building-adjacent open-air parking zones, or are parked on the street.
4gotunameagain 3y ago
A claim which is very easy to gather information for. Just open google maps, satellite view, and look into any major European city. Given the known ~70% urbanisation of the EU, it seems feasible. From my own, anecdotal experience, I would say way more than most cars are parked outside. Most of the times a block away. Some annoying times, much farther.
skrunch 3y ago
Page 72 here: https://publications.europa.eu/resource/cellar/2d5d968f-4f4c-4ee0-82e2-a7a136dfd187.0001.02/DOC_1 https://publications.europa.eu/resource/cellar/2d5d968f-4f4c... 45-55% in most countries (France seems like an outlier), but even that is above 20%.
- michpoch 3y ago
  The data is unfortunately not granular enough. It combines "reserved spots" and garages. A reserved spot could be an open parking lot with an assigned number. It doesn't help with the charging at all. I'd guesstimate that the cars parked "american style" (in a private garage or on the driveway of the house) in Europe is < 10%. You really need to live in a small town or a village to find these setups.
michpoch 3y ago
Absolutely yes. Unless you live in a single-family house (which in the circle of my friends it'd be just one couple), or you live in one of the newest apartment blocks, you're definitely keeping your car on the street or on a parking lot in front of your building. I can see a lot of articles / comments on various portals where the authors are explaining how easy is to use EVs - you charge it in your own garage over night and then drive to office or to do groceries. I can't overstate how unusual use-case it is. Most people where I live (Switzerland) would never consider using a car to get to work. We walk / cycle / take a bus, tram or train. Same with groceries. The cars are on the street, you use it maybe once every week or two, to go skiing, move something large or go for a longer trip. Average yearly distance per car is ~13'000 km (~8'000 miles). Using an EV is really a huge huge hassle.