3 ms·

EV suffering range loss in cold conditions is well documented. Norway has tons of EVs purely because of massive government incentives.

ceejayoz 3y ago
The question becomes “is that loss important?” I suspect people overestimate the frequency in which they drive 250 miles a day.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Yes. No. The nice thing about fuel cars is you almost never need to think about range beyond the refueling visit to a gas station once every week or two. If you're going on an extended road trip, you know you could skip a dozen gas stations and still be fine. I drove an EV before alongside a fuel car, and I constantly considered whether the bloody thing had enough range for the day or journey. The constant mental load, light as it was, is something I don't have to deal with driving fuel cars. Having ease of mind is priceless.
  - neon_electro 3y ago
    Strange, I’ve been driving EVs for seven years and I have just as much ease of mind as you claim to about gas cars. Maybe it has more to do with how much you need to drive each day? If you’re putting in triple digits of miles every day, then you have a very different set of constraints compared to someone commuting up to 40 miles a day, which is the United States average.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    I have the opposite. Some of my kids activities are almost 50 miles away. I have to think about whether there's enough gas in the gasoline car to get there and back. If not, we have to leave 10 minutes early, and that means you have to yell at the kids to hurry up, et cetera. Or when driving home you always have to ask yourself "do I need to fill up or not"? OTOH, if the EV is at home, it's plugged in and is always sitting at 80% full. No load.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > The nice thing about fuel cars is you almost never need to think about range beyond the refueling visit to a gas station once every week or two. If that's your frequency of gas fillups, and you have a garage charger, the same is true for an EV. (If you lived in an apartment where you couldn't plug in regularly, perhaps not.)
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      Here's the thing: I rarely ended the day on an empty tank. I always ended the day on an empty battery. So there I was, constantly considering whether the bloody thing had enough range for the day. It's a worry I can do without, and so batteries will need to see exponential improvements before I'll consider one over a good old fuel tank and an engine.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        This doesn't make sense to me. Average gasoline-powered car has 300-400 miles range, and you're filling up once every week or two? That implies an EV range of something like 80 miles?
bryanlarsen 3y ago
Norway is rich. If electric cars weren't suited for Norwegian conditions, many Norwegians can and would buy gasoline cars instead. EV's sell well in Norway because they're both good enough and cheaper. If only one of those two conditions held they wouldn't sell well.
- threemux 3y ago
  The bar for "good enough" is artificially lower in Norway when it comes to EVs. I'm not sure if you're aware just how huge the subsides are for EVs in Norway. They are trying to reduce these a bit and I'll be interested to see how that affects purchasing patterns. You're exempted from a punishing 25% VAT that gas cars are subject to first and foremost. Also, electricity is very cheap in Norway due to their abundance of hydropower. https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/ https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    I've got relatives in Norway and Denmark. All the ones in my generation can afford gasoline cars even though they cost ~twice as much. They would drive gasoline cars if electric cars sucked. They don't.
    - threemux 3y ago
      Electric cars would have to suck pretty bad for someone to spend twice as much, I'm not sure that anecdote is saying what you seem to think it is. They might be saying "In an ideal world I'd drive a gas car, but the electric car is good enough where I'd rather not pay double." I don't think the person I was responding to was saying they "sucked", just that they had drawbacks.
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        A $25,000 base Civic is a fabulous car yet $50,000 cars are far more popular in the US.

ceejayoz 3y ago

The question becomes “is that loss important?” I suspect people overestimate the frequency in which they drive 250 miles a day.

Dalewyn 3y ago
Yes. No. The nice thing about fuel cars is you almost never need to think about range beyond the refueling visit to a gas station once every week or two. If you're going on an extended road trip, you know you could skip a dozen gas stations and still be fine. I drove an EV before alongside a fuel car, and I constantly considered whether the bloody thing had enough range for the day or journey. The constant mental load, light as it was, is something I don't have to deal with driving fuel cars. Having ease of mind is priceless.
- neon_electro 3y ago
  Strange, I’ve been driving EVs for seven years and I have just as much ease of mind as you claim to about gas cars. Maybe it has more to do with how much you need to drive each day? If you’re putting in triple digits of miles every day, then you have a very different set of constraints compared to someone commuting up to 40 miles a day, which is the United States average.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  I have the opposite. Some of my kids activities are almost 50 miles away. I have to think about whether there's enough gas in the gasoline car to get there and back. If not, we have to leave 10 minutes early, and that means you have to yell at the kids to hurry up, et cetera. Or when driving home you always have to ask yourself "do I need to fill up or not"? OTOH, if the EV is at home, it's plugged in and is always sitting at 80% full. No load.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  > The nice thing about fuel cars is you almost never need to think about range beyond the refueling visit to a gas station once every week or two. If that's your frequency of gas fillups, and you have a garage charger, the same is true for an EV. (If you lived in an apartment where you couldn't plug in regularly, perhaps not.)
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Here's the thing: I rarely ended the day on an empty tank. I always ended the day on an empty battery. So there I was, constantly considering whether the bloody thing had enough range for the day. It's a worry I can do without, and so batteries will need to see exponential improvements before I'll consider one over a good old fuel tank and an engine.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      This doesn't make sense to me. Average gasoline-powered car has 300-400 miles range, and you're filling up once every week or two? That implies an EV range of something like 80 miles?

bryanlarsen 3y ago

Norway is rich. If electric cars weren't suited for Norwegian conditions, many Norwegians can and would buy gasoline cars instead. EV's sell well in Norway because they're both good enough and cheaper. If only one of those two conditions held they wouldn't sell well.

threemux 3y ago
The bar for "good enough" is artificially lower in Norway when it comes to EVs. I'm not sure if you're aware just how huge the subsides are for EVs in Norway. They are trying to reduce these a bit and I'll be interested to see how that affects purchasing patterns. You're exempted from a punishing 25% VAT that gas cars are subject to first and foremost. Also, electricity is very cheap in Norway due to their abundance of hydropower. https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/ https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  I've got relatives in Norway and Denmark. All the ones in my generation can afford gasoline cars even though they cost ~twice as much. They would drive gasoline cars if electric cars sucked. They don't.
  - threemux 3y ago
    Electric cars would have to suck pretty bad for someone to spend twice as much, I'm not sure that anecdote is saying what you seem to think it is. They might be saying "In an ideal world I'd drive a gas car, but the electric car is good enough where I'd rather not pay double." I don't think the person I was responding to was saying they "sucked", just that they had drawbacks.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      A $25,000 base Civic is a fabulous car yet $50,000 cars are far more popular in the US.