3 ms·

It's plainly obvious that not every person speaking english uses an identical grammar. It seems reasonable to assume that at least some people don't notice the

by qwery 3y ago

It's plainly obvious that not every person speaking english uses an identical grammar. It seems reasonable to assume that at least some people don't notice the difference/s. The incorrect form must not be significantly more difficult to use because it's being used. They haven't learned that it's incorrect or can't see why it matters. I'm a bit confused about what point you're making. Are you talking about individuals "naturally" preferring the correct grammar -- as opposed to learning it? Or the grammar has developing over time?

wolverine876 3y ago
> not every person speaking english uses an identical grammar. It seems reasonable to assume that at least some people don't notice the difference/s. The incorrect form must not be significantly more difficult to use because it's being used. Not every variation of grammar is equally possible or usable. It's a philosophical argument, a fantasy of (rebellion?), to reject all practices and rules and preferences as arbitrary and therefore to be ignored. Some are arbitrary, some are obsolete, but many have real reasons, value, and impact. From David Adger, professor of linguistics, Queen Mary University of London: "People have a notion of grammar as being a set of rules that someone tells you to do. ... I want to say, 'No, look at the amazing complexity of languages around the world, and look at how unified it all is.'" "There's an unlimited number of even numbers but obviously they’re limited, right? Because 3s and 7s aren't in there. Language is like that. There's an unlimited number of possible things we can say, of sentence structures, but not anything can be a sentence structure. ... Language is unlimited, but it’s unlimited in a limited way." http://nautil.us/issue/76/language/-talking-is-throwing-fictional-worlds-at-one-another http://nautil.us/issue/76/language/-talking-is-throwing-fict... > I'm a bit confused about what point you're making. Are you talking about individuals "naturally" preferring the correct grammar -- as opposed to learning it? Or the grammar has developing over time? I'm saying the great majority of explicitly learned/taught grammar is not arbitrary or obsolete, but has developed from study and practical experience of what is used and what works well (and what doesn't).
- qwery 3y ago
  I don't disagree with you. I'm not sure why/if you think I was calling for the rejection of all/any rules/practices.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Sorry if I misunderstand. The original comment said: > "An burger" sounds like a abomination to you and is more difficult for you to say than "a burger" because that's how you learned to say it. That seems to imply, to me, that the rules/etc don't have legitimacy; they're merely what we have been told. What am I missing?
    - qwery 3y ago
      No worries, hopefully I can make sense this time! I was responding to this part of the parent comment: > The a/an rules exist because they make it easier to speak. I disagree with that. I can understand how an english native speaker would feel that that's a natural conclusion though -- because they learned how to follow the rules at a very young age. The correct form is easier to a native speaker, because that's what they know. I'm not judging the rules / grammar. The rules are learned, but that doesn't assign a value to them.

by qwery 3y ago

wolverine876 3y ago

> not every person speaking english uses an identical grammar. It seems reasonable to assume that at least some people don't notice the difference/s. The incorrect form must not be significantly more difficult to use because it's being used. Not every variation of grammar is equally possible or usable. It's a philosophical argument, a fantasy of (rebellion?), to reject all practices and rules and preferences as arbitrary and therefore to be ignored. Some are arbitrary, some are obsolete, but many have real reasons, value, and impact. From David Adger, professor of linguistics, Queen Mary University of London: "People have a notion of grammar as being a set of rules that someone tells you to do. ... I want to say, 'No, look at the amazing complexity of languages around the world, and look at how unified it all is.'" "There's an unlimited number of even numbers but obviously they’re limited, right? Because 3s and 7s aren't in there. Language is like that. There's an unlimited number of possible things we can say, of sentence structures, but not anything can be a sentence structure. ... Language is unlimited, but it’s unlimited in a limited way." http://nautil.us/issue/76/language/-talking-is-throwing-fictional-worlds-at-one-another http://nautil.us/issue/76/language/-talking-is-throwing-fict... > I'm a bit confused about what point you're making. Are you talking about individuals "naturally" preferring the correct grammar -- as opposed to learning it? Or the grammar has developing over time? I'm saying the great majority of explicitly learned/taught grammar is not arbitrary or obsolete, but has developed from study and practical experience of what is used and what works well (and what doesn't).

qwery 3y ago
I don't disagree with you. I'm not sure why/if you think I was calling for the rejection of all/any rules/practices.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Sorry if I misunderstand. The original comment said: > "An burger" sounds like a abomination to you and is more difficult for you to say than "a burger" because that's how you learned to say it. That seems to imply, to me, that the rules/etc don't have legitimacy; they're merely what we have been told. What am I missing?
  - qwery 3y ago
    No worries, hopefully I can make sense this time! I was responding to this part of the parent comment: > The a/an rules exist because they make it easier to speak. I disagree with that. I can understand how an english native speaker would feel that that's a natural conclusion though -- because they learned how to follow the rules at a very young age. The correct form is easier to a native speaker, because that's what they know. I'm not judging the rules / grammar. The rules are learned, but that doesn't assign a value to them.