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I don't want some ridiculous 3 ton electric truck that needs a 131 kWh battery. I want an adorable, tiny EV Mitsubishi Delica for $13,000 new. https://www.mits

I don't want some ridiculous 3 ton electric truck that needs a 131 kWh battery. I want an adorable, tiny EV Mitsubishi Delica for $13,000 new. https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/en/newsrelease/2023/detail1422.html https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/en/newsrelease/2023/detail... Or this adorable, tiny EV SUV for about the same price: https://www.thedrive.com/news/gms-tiny-electric-pickup-is-an-open-top-truck-meant-for-china https://www.thedrive.com/news/gms-tiny-electric-pickup-is-an...

huytersd 3y ago
Oh I want the ridiculous 3 ton truck but I also don’t want to pay 80-100k for it.
topspin 3y ago
"3 ton electric truck" Elon stated that Cybertruck will weigh about 7000 lbs. That's 3.5 tons. That's the same mass as an F-350 DRW (dual rear wheel) loaded with options. Seriously heavy. I'm not anti heavy vehicles or anything; I have a 3/4 ton truck myself (~5200 lbs.) I just think it's eye opening just how heavy these EVs are.
- Alifatisk 3y ago
  I read somewhere that todays vehicles and the trend towards heavier vehicles is damaging older parking houses and roads.
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    Yes. Some of the environmental benefits of EVs will be offset by the increased road maintenance they'll require. Of course, the same could be said about unnecessarily enormous ICE vehicles people drive nowadays too. Vehicle weight really ought to be taxed.
    - user_7832 3y ago
      An interesting thing I've read re: passenger car weights is that even though there are continuous gains in weight reduction (for eg by using composites), the overall weight has stayed the same/gone up for decades due to more safety devices/crash zones etc. It appears to be the hardware equivalent of Wirth's/Bill's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law).
- lispisok 3y ago
  A Rivian R1S is 8,500 lbs. These electric SUV's are insanely heavy. Like heavy enough a standard passenger vehicle driver's license shouldnt apply. A 8,500lbs suv with sports car acceleration. We're gonna see the pedestrian vehicle death record go up every year.
  - japanuspus 3y ago
    For (~100kg) pedestrian, I am sure the difference in lethality from being hit by a 1000kg vehicle vs a 3000kg vehicle is insubstantial. Where the weight would matter is for vehicle-vehicle collisions.
    - mathieuh 3y ago
      I think they were probably referring to the handling of such a ridiculously heavy car.
    - quicklime 3y ago
      The vast majority of pedestrians survive getting hit by a car, not all incidents happen at highway speeds. A difference between a mass of 1 and 3 tons would absolutely make a difference in lethality.
      - kjkjadksj 3y ago
        I think its more that you are liable to roll off a car vs get exploded from an suv.
      - dcsscgrw 3y ago
        Dubious claim. A vehicle might as well be a wall with infinite mass vs a pedestrian. Deformation, breaking and being passed out of the way are what counts.
        quicklime 3y ago
        8000 pedestrians killed vs 104,000 emergency visits for non fatal crash related injuries: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/pedestrian_safety/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/pedestrian_safety/i... Weight is directly called out as a factor: > SUVs can cause more harm to a person on foot when a crash occurs because of their greater body weight and larger profile
01100011 3y ago
I absolutely loved my 2019 Chevy Bolt, but the wife did not. It's a great commuter but didn't feel 'cushy'. If they can deliver comfort in a small EV they'll be onto something.
- aaronbrethorst 3y ago
  My wife and I are leasing a 2022 Kia Niro EV that I’m generally very happy with. When we return it, I’ll probably go looking for something slightly longer, but generally it does everything we want and need. I just want a small, cheap second car for running errands around the neighborhood. TBH, if I ever break down on this, I’ll probably just buy a 12 year old Leaf that gets 70 miles of range for $6,000, or whatever. I just really want an electric version of the adorable, tiny Japanese trucks I see in my Seattle neighborhood. Preemptive edit: yes I’ve thought many times about buying an e-bike. Love the idea, but I value my health too much to entrust it to Seattle drivers. Every person I know who regularly bikes in Seattle has some horror story about being hit by a car. Until our municipal government values biking as a first class alternative to driving, I will not put myself in danger.
  - 01100011 3y ago
    Yeah I used to bike commute years ago but gave that up because I don't want to die young. I think I had a Kia for a day when the Bolt was in for the battery recall and it wasn't bad. I still think the Bolt nailed the one-pedal driving though and I preferred it over the Kia. Thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot I'd driven that car. It was a lot more comfortable and finished than the Bolt, although not as nimble from what I remember.
    - tom_ 3y ago
      You're less likely to die young as a regular bike rider, and more likely to be killed due to some driver's inattentiveness or impatience. Not the same thing, even if you'd be dead either way.
- DangitBobby 3y ago
  My 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV (no idea about the sedan) is very comfortable. I think they upgraded the seats on this model year after people complained.
tremere 3y ago
>adorable, tiny Or maybe, just maybe, realize your consumer preferences are not universal and are in fact the minority view
- aaronbrethorst 3y ago
  Good thing more than one kind of car is sold here in this bastion of freedom that is the United States of America.
- majikaja 3y ago
  I was looking at the first one (Suzuki version) living in Tokyo but decided it was too cramped for even a small family and the crash ratings are not as good as a full size car. In particular the luggage space is lacking.
gambiting 3y ago
Volkswagen e-Up and its sisters(Skoda Citigo and Seat Mii) exist? It's a cheap car with Volkswagen build quality, 36kWh battery that easily gives you 150 miles range, no touch screen nonsense, fits a baby seat no problem, Costco shopping, it just works day in and day out. It's literally my favourite car I ever owned, and I used to have a Mercedes-AMG at one point. It's just so usable and costs nothing to run(charging at home it's literally less than a pound for 60 miles, I think my old petrol car would use a pound worth of petrol just to start up).
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  I just googled the e-Up. Doesn't exist in the US, and it's also being discontinued.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    There seem to be a lot of models with really short lifetimes. I've been looking to buy a used EV to get past the depreciation cliff, and the number of ones for sale that have been discontinued - not a model number increment, just vanished from the range entirely - is remarkable. It's like smartphones.
    - gambiting 3y ago
      I mean the e-Up has been in production since 2013, it enjoyed 10 years of market presence in pretty much unchanged form(other than the battery bump in 2020). And it's only being discontinued because VW is replacing it with an ID.2
      - bonton89 3y ago
        I still don't think we'll see any of these small affordable ones in the US. The only one close I'm aware of is Nissan's Leaf and it is being discontinued last I heard. I'd like to try one out for my next car but I can't afford a luxury car.
        3y ago
ugh123 3y ago
Those are nice, but I think it's a shame new EV production has to coincide with an exterior 'facelift' to match the moment. Why do most new EVs over the last 10 years need to look like EVs? At least Tesla and a few other brands are slooowly dialing that down finally.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  The eGolf and eUp looked almost exactly the same as their petrol counterparts. It caused a lot of confusion; many people think the ID.Whatever cars are VW’s first electric cars. For better or for worse, “weird-looking” seems to work as marketing for electric cars.
JeremyNT 3y ago
I would by a car like the ID.3 tomorrow, but they won't sell it in the US. The US market is so weird. Mostly dominated by very expensive, very large vehicles. Yet, it seems like the kind of consumer who might want a EV is also the kind of consumer who would want a smaller vehicle, which would be far more practical. I guess the Bolt (in limbo, with a new design maybe coming?) and Nissan Leaf are pretty much it right now. I think automakers just assume "US consumers want big, expensive cars" and copy/pasted that over to their EV offerings, while the big untapped EV market is probably for more practical people who would gladly drive a smaller, more efficient, cheaper vehicle.

huytersd 3y ago

Oh I want the ridiculous 3 ton truck but I also don’t want to pay 80-100k for it.

topspin 3y ago

"3 ton electric truck" Elon stated that Cybertruck will weigh about 7000 lbs. That's 3.5 tons. That's the same mass as an F-350 DRW (dual rear wheel) loaded with options. Seriously heavy. I'm not anti heavy vehicles or anything; I have a 3/4 ton truck myself (~5200 lbs.) I just think it's eye opening just how heavy these EVs are.

Alifatisk 3y ago
I read somewhere that todays vehicles and the trend towards heavier vehicles is damaging older parking houses and roads.
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  Yes. Some of the environmental benefits of EVs will be offset by the increased road maintenance they'll require. Of course, the same could be said about unnecessarily enormous ICE vehicles people drive nowadays too. Vehicle weight really ought to be taxed.
  - user_7832 3y ago
    An interesting thing I've read re: passenger car weights is that even though there are continuous gains in weight reduction (for eg by using composites), the overall weight has stayed the same/gone up for decades due to more safety devices/crash zones etc. It appears to be the hardware equivalent of Wirth's/Bill's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law).
lispisok 3y ago
A Rivian R1S is 8,500 lbs. These electric SUV's are insanely heavy. Like heavy enough a standard passenger vehicle driver's license shouldnt apply. A 8,500lbs suv with sports car acceleration. We're gonna see the pedestrian vehicle death record go up every year.
- japanuspus 3y ago
  For (~100kg) pedestrian, I am sure the difference in lethality from being hit by a 1000kg vehicle vs a 3000kg vehicle is insubstantial. Where the weight would matter is for vehicle-vehicle collisions.
  - mathieuh 3y ago
    I think they were probably referring to the handling of such a ridiculously heavy car.
  - quicklime 3y ago
    The vast majority of pedestrians survive getting hit by a car, not all incidents happen at highway speeds. A difference between a mass of 1 and 3 tons would absolutely make a difference in lethality.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      I think its more that you are liable to roll off a car vs get exploded from an suv.
    - dcsscgrw 3y ago
      Dubious claim. A vehicle might as well be a wall with infinite mass vs a pedestrian. Deformation, breaking and being passed out of the way are what counts.
      - quicklime 3y ago
        8000 pedestrians killed vs 104,000 emergency visits for non fatal crash related injuries: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/pedestrian_safety/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/pedestrian_safety/i... Weight is directly called out as a factor: > SUVs can cause more harm to a person on foot when a crash occurs because of their greater body weight and larger profile

01100011 3y ago

I absolutely loved my 2019 Chevy Bolt, but the wife did not. It's a great commuter but didn't feel 'cushy'. If they can deliver comfort in a small EV they'll be onto something.

aaronbrethorst 3y ago
My wife and I are leasing a 2022 Kia Niro EV that I’m generally very happy with. When we return it, I’ll probably go looking for something slightly longer, but generally it does everything we want and need. I just want a small, cheap second car for running errands around the neighborhood. TBH, if I ever break down on this, I’ll probably just buy a 12 year old Leaf that gets 70 miles of range for $6,000, or whatever. I just really want an electric version of the adorable, tiny Japanese trucks I see in my Seattle neighborhood. Preemptive edit: yes I’ve thought many times about buying an e-bike. Love the idea, but I value my health too much to entrust it to Seattle drivers. Every person I know who regularly bikes in Seattle has some horror story about being hit by a car. Until our municipal government values biking as a first class alternative to driving, I will not put myself in danger.
- 01100011 3y ago
  Yeah I used to bike commute years ago but gave that up because I don't want to die young. I think I had a Kia for a day when the Bolt was in for the battery recall and it wasn't bad. I still think the Bolt nailed the one-pedal driving though and I preferred it over the Kia. Thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot I'd driven that car. It was a lot more comfortable and finished than the Bolt, although not as nimble from what I remember.
  - tom_ 3y ago
    You're less likely to die young as a regular bike rider, and more likely to be killed due to some driver's inattentiveness or impatience. Not the same thing, even if you'd be dead either way.
DangitBobby 3y ago
My 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV (no idea about the sedan) is very comfortable. I think they upgraded the seats on this model year after people complained.

tremere 3y ago

>adorable, tiny Or maybe, just maybe, realize your consumer preferences are not universal and are in fact the minority view

aaronbrethorst 3y ago
Good thing more than one kind of car is sold here in this bastion of freedom that is the United States of America.
majikaja 3y ago
I was looking at the first one (Suzuki version) living in Tokyo but decided it was too cramped for even a small family and the crash ratings are not as good as a full size car. In particular the luggage space is lacking.

gambiting 3y ago

Volkswagen e-Up and its sisters(Skoda Citigo and Seat Mii) exist? It's a cheap car with Volkswagen build quality, 36kWh battery that easily gives you 150 miles range, no touch screen nonsense, fits a baby seat no problem, Costco shopping, it just works day in and day out. It's literally my favourite car I ever owned, and I used to have a Mercedes-AMG at one point. It's just so usable and costs nothing to run(charging at home it's literally less than a pound for 60 miles, I think my old petrol car would use a pound worth of petrol just to start up).

TulliusCicero 3y ago
I just googled the e-Up. Doesn't exist in the US, and it's also being discontinued.
- pjc50 3y ago
  There seem to be a lot of models with really short lifetimes. I've been looking to buy a used EV to get past the depreciation cliff, and the number of ones for sale that have been discontinued - not a model number increment, just vanished from the range entirely - is remarkable. It's like smartphones.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    I mean the e-Up has been in production since 2013, it enjoyed 10 years of market presence in pretty much unchanged form(other than the battery bump in 2020). And it's only being discontinued because VW is replacing it with an ID.2
    - bonton89 3y ago
      I still don't think we'll see any of these small affordable ones in the US. The only one close I'm aware of is Nissan's Leaf and it is being discontinued last I heard. I'd like to try one out for my next car but I can't afford a luxury car.
      - 3y ago

ugh123 3y ago

Those are nice, but I think it's a shame new EV production has to coincide with an exterior 'facelift' to match the moment. Why do most new EVs over the last 10 years need to look like EVs? At least Tesla and a few other brands are slooowly dialing that down finally.

rsynnott 3y ago
The eGolf and eUp looked almost exactly the same as their petrol counterparts. It caused a lot of confusion; many people think the ID.Whatever cars are VW’s first electric cars. For better or for worse, “weird-looking” seems to work as marketing for electric cars.

JeremyNT 3y ago

I would by a car like the ID.3 tomorrow, but they won't sell it in the US. The US market is so weird. Mostly dominated by very expensive, very large vehicles. Yet, it seems like the kind of consumer who might want a EV is also the kind of consumer who would want a smaller vehicle, which would be far more practical. I guess the Bolt (in limbo, with a new design maybe coming?) and Nissan Leaf are pretty much it right now. I think automakers just assume "US consumers want big, expensive cars" and copy/pasted that over to their EV offerings, while the big untapped EV market is probably for more practical people who would gladly drive a smaller, more efficient, cheaper vehicle.