5 ms·

EVs are expensive imo and risky for someone like me. I can replace a transmission or engine on my ford focus for $500, the car is at 140k miles with basic main

by avgDev 3y ago

EVs are expensive imo and risky for someone like me. I can replace a transmission or engine on my ford focus for $500, the car is at 140k miles with basic maintenance. There is no way around battery replacement out of warranty and Tesla has recently raised their battery prices. I happen to keep my cars for 10+ years because its a depreciating asset.

fnordpiglet 3y ago
Batteries tend to be at 80%+ capacity after 10+ years. You still see EV1s on the road with original batteries - and those batteries are ancient tech compared to modern batteries. The lack of moving parts means EVs rarely need service of any kind. There are no fluids, no pneumatic system, no gearing, or other Rube Goldberg machine things in it. It’s just copper and magnets, powered by maxwells equations rather than dinosaur juice and fire. The issue with EVs is charging infrastructure. However that will continue to improve over the next 10 years. As will the economics - there’s no reason for an EV to cost so much. They’re just premium priced because everyone wants a Tesla margin, and they’re used to demanding high prices for their complex mechanical gear and belts beasts because that complexity of machine really costs that much. BYD is proving tho you can deliver a quality $10k EV at much lower costs than we see coming from the major car makers. I’d note your $500 replacement is if you do it yourself with a scrap engine. You can’t take it to the dealer or a shop and get a major change to the car done. So while that may be your economics, it’s not a very widely shared option.
- anon291 3y ago
  I have read a few of your comments and you make great points, but you might want to stop using pejorative language if you want to be effective in communicating your ideas. 'Rube goldberg machines' can be replaced by parts with lots of wearable components. Dinosaur juice can be replaced with 'gasoline'
  - fch42 3y ago
    maybe it can, but why should? Especially if you like "cars s such", you would strongly have felt the Rube-Goldbergization yourself in the last 25 years or so; while "then" everyone could do certain routine maintenance tasks themselves, "now" more likely than not the electronic controls will lock "your" car down as soon as you get your hand within an inch of the bonnet or so. Your car today is DMCA-protected against you, really... Nevermind "gasoline" - from the US carmaker lobby view, clearly diesel is the dinosaur juice because the European makers promoted it and lied about it (while in Germany petrol is the dinosaur juice as diesel is cheaper with more mileage). Definitely a dinosaur fight if you ask me. The lack of a charger network is lamentable but let's not forget that Benz' first motor car had to be refilled at pharmacies; the fuel station network didn't come to exist overnight either. Transitions that happen with ourselves "feeling overridden" always leave us annoyed and perky. That's no different whether authorities put that shiney new motorway right through your neighbourhood or your local fuel station closes - or your new company car is electric because that's what fleet management went for to tick the green box. We're already in the middle of a big shift here. whether one of us individually embraces our resists it won't stop it from happening. The choice of the dinosaur fate is everyone's own by and large.
- pacifika 3y ago
  Dealers still manage to charge £29k for BYD over here https://www.arnoldclark.com/new-cars/byd https://www.arnoldclark.com/new-cars/byd
  - slaw 3y ago
    Why it is twice as expensive in UK than in China? https://www.gizmochina.com/2022/12/29/new-2023-byd-dolphin-launched-in-china-price-starts-at-16700-usd/ https://www.gizmochina.com/2022/12/29/new-2023-byd-dolphin-l...
    - pacifika 3y ago
      Not sure, but from what I read the usual suspects are import duties to protected what's left of the UK automobile industry, the current government rolling back EV rebates/discounts, and additional costs importing cars into the UK after leaving the EU. But it would be good to hear from someone with actual insight.
- aulin 3y ago
  > Batteries tend to be at 80%+ capacity after 10+ years do they use some kind of special battery tech? because that's not the common experience with battery operated devices, every phone I have ever owned had half battery life after one year. Same for laptops. Even the super efficient macbook air m1 I have now lasts half what it did two years ago. I have never seen a battery last ten years, let alone do it at 80% capacity.
  - jdlshore 3y ago
    Better battery management, more careful charging patterns and leveling, better temperature management. You can do a lot more with a big pack of batteries in a car than the few cells in your phone or laptop.
  - mjamesaustin 3y ago
    There are a couple factors: • Car batteries are thermally managed much better than your laptop or especially your phone, which helps longevity • Much larger capacity means a similar amount of battery cycles lasts a long time. 1000 cycles is common for lithium ion, which in a 300 mile range car means 300,000 miles
    - momirlan 3y ago
      but battery fires are still an issue, and makes EVs expensive to ensure and impossible to put on a ferry 8n some places
  - user_7832 3y ago
    I'm not an expert on batteries, but iphone batteries are specifically known to be poorly rated (iirc 500 cycles till 80%). iPads & macs are I think 1000 cycles. Car batteries are likely much higher. The interesting thing is by reducing the charging window (aka charging only between 30-70% for eg) you can greatly boost the cycles the battery will last.
grecy 3y ago
> I can replace a transmission or engine on my ford focus for $50 That's impressive. I just put a new clutch in my 2004 Toyota Matrix. The clutch, flyweel and pressure plate were $450 just in parts from Rockauto, the cheapest of the cheap.

by avgDev 3y ago

fnordpiglet 3y ago

Batteries tend to be at 80%+ capacity after 10+ years. You still see EV1s on the road with original batteries - and those batteries are ancient tech compared to modern batteries. The lack of moving parts means EVs rarely need service of any kind. There are no fluids, no pneumatic system, no gearing, or other Rube Goldberg machine things in it. It’s just copper and magnets, powered by maxwells equations rather than dinosaur juice and fire. The issue with EVs is charging infrastructure. However that will continue to improve over the next 10 years. As will the economics - there’s no reason for an EV to cost so much. They’re just premium priced because everyone wants a Tesla margin, and they’re used to demanding high prices for their complex mechanical gear and belts beasts because that complexity of machine really costs that much. BYD is proving tho you can deliver a quality $10k EV at much lower costs than we see coming from the major car makers. I’d note your $500 replacement is if you do it yourself with a scrap engine. You can’t take it to the dealer or a shop and get a major change to the car done. So while that may be your economics, it’s not a very widely shared option.

anon291 3y ago
I have read a few of your comments and you make great points, but you might want to stop using pejorative language if you want to be effective in communicating your ideas. 'Rube goldberg machines' can be replaced by parts with lots of wearable components. Dinosaur juice can be replaced with 'gasoline'
- fch42 3y ago
  maybe it can, but why should? Especially if you like "cars s such", you would strongly have felt the Rube-Goldbergization yourself in the last 25 years or so; while "then" everyone could do certain routine maintenance tasks themselves, "now" more likely than not the electronic controls will lock "your" car down as soon as you get your hand within an inch of the bonnet or so. Your car today is DMCA-protected against you, really... Nevermind "gasoline" - from the US carmaker lobby view, clearly diesel is the dinosaur juice because the European makers promoted it and lied about it (while in Germany petrol is the dinosaur juice as diesel is cheaper with more mileage). Definitely a dinosaur fight if you ask me. The lack of a charger network is lamentable but let's not forget that Benz' first motor car had to be refilled at pharmacies; the fuel station network didn't come to exist overnight either. Transitions that happen with ourselves "feeling overridden" always leave us annoyed and perky. That's no different whether authorities put that shiney new motorway right through your neighbourhood or your local fuel station closes - or your new company car is electric because that's what fleet management went for to tick the green box. We're already in the middle of a big shift here. whether one of us individually embraces our resists it won't stop it from happening. The choice of the dinosaur fate is everyone's own by and large.
pacifika 3y ago
Dealers still manage to charge £29k for BYD over here https://www.arnoldclark.com/new-cars/byd https://www.arnoldclark.com/new-cars/byd
- slaw 3y ago
  Why it is twice as expensive in UK than in China? https://www.gizmochina.com/2022/12/29/new-2023-byd-dolphin-launched-in-china-price-starts-at-16700-usd/ https://www.gizmochina.com/2022/12/29/new-2023-byd-dolphin-l...
  - pacifika 3y ago
    Not sure, but from what I read the usual suspects are import duties to protected what's left of the UK automobile industry, the current government rolling back EV rebates/discounts, and additional costs importing cars into the UK after leaving the EU. But it would be good to hear from someone with actual insight.
aulin 3y ago
> Batteries tend to be at 80%+ capacity after 10+ years do they use some kind of special battery tech? because that's not the common experience with battery operated devices, every phone I have ever owned had half battery life after one year. Same for laptops. Even the super efficient macbook air m1 I have now lasts half what it did two years ago. I have never seen a battery last ten years, let alone do it at 80% capacity.
- jdlshore 3y ago
  Better battery management, more careful charging patterns and leveling, better temperature management. You can do a lot more with a big pack of batteries in a car than the few cells in your phone or laptop.
- mjamesaustin 3y ago
  There are a couple factors: • Car batteries are thermally managed much better than your laptop or especially your phone, which helps longevity • Much larger capacity means a similar amount of battery cycles lasts a long time. 1000 cycles is common for lithium ion, which in a 300 mile range car means 300,000 miles
  - momirlan 3y ago
    but battery fires are still an issue, and makes EVs expensive to ensure and impossible to put on a ferry 8n some places
- user_7832 3y ago
  I'm not an expert on batteries, but iphone batteries are specifically known to be poorly rated (iirc 500 cycles till 80%). iPads & macs are I think 1000 cycles. Car batteries are likely much higher. The interesting thing is by reducing the charging window (aka charging only between 30-70% for eg) you can greatly boost the cycles the battery will last.

grecy 3y ago

> I can replace a transmission or engine on my ford focus for $50 That's impressive. I just put a new clutch in my 2004 Toyota Matrix. The clutch, flyweel and pressure plate were $450 just in parts from Rockauto, the cheapest of the cheap.