3 ms·

I always wondered whether the American guilty / not guilty system isn't obviously too binary.

steveBK123 3y ago
What is the alternative here and where do they use it? The audience has voted and you've been declared.. 4% guilty! You will now serve 4% of the statutory 25 year sentence!
- cubefox 3y ago
  Many countries do not have this "guilty/not guilty" system the US is using.
  - meepmorp 3y ago
    What countries are these?
    - cubefox 3y ago
      Most countries perhaps. Germany for example.
serf 3y ago
the granularity of the legal convictions and the punishment ranges provides the fine strokes needed to make a binary decision work.
eqmvii 3y ago
Of course it's not. Where there are gradients, there are different charges. Murder I, Murder II, (voluntary/involuntary) Manslaughter, etc. To the extent grey areas exist, they are accounted for in a gradient of crimes, each of which has a binary degree of guilt.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  And the gradient of sentencing for the convictions -- defrauding people of $1 gets you less jail time that defrauding people out of $100k, which gets you less jail time than defrauding people out of $100M.
  - cubefox 3y ago
    Then what is the benefit of deciding between guilty / not guilty when all the importance lies in the degree of guilt?
    - mikeyouse 3y ago
      Because 'not guilty' gets you 0 years in jail? Fake numbers but say you shot and killed someone -- the law (and related sentences) can accomodate a wide variety of scenarios which will lead to a wide variety of punishments. E.g. if you were cleaning a gun and it went off, you could be charged with involuntary manslaughter and face 5 years, or if you were in a fight and pulled a gun you could be charged with voluntary manslaughter and face 10 years, or if the fight seemed avoidable it could be a 3rd degree homicide charge facing 15 years, or if you shot them will robbing a bank, it could be a 2nd degree homicide facing 20 years, or if you planned an assassination and shot someone, it could be 1st degree homicide where you would face life. There's a binary "guilty / not guilty" but on the guilty branch, each of those sentences has enhancements that will determine your length of incarceration. Was this your first crime? Were you on drugs? Was the robbery over $5 or over $50k? and so on and so on.
- cubefox 3y ago
  A "binary degree of guilt" sounds like a contradiction in terms.

What is the alternative here and where do they use it? The audience has voted and you've been declared.. 4% guilty! You will now serve 4% of the statutory 25 year sentence!

cubefox 3y ago
Many countries do not have this "guilty/not guilty" system the US is using.
- meepmorp 3y ago
  What countries are these?
  - cubefox 3y ago
    Most countries perhaps. Germany for example.

serf 3y ago

the granularity of the legal convictions and the punishment ranges provides the fine strokes needed to make a binary decision work.

eqmvii 3y ago

Of course it's not. Where there are gradients, there are different charges. Murder I, Murder II, (voluntary/involuntary) Manslaughter, etc. To the extent grey areas exist, they are accounted for in a gradient of crimes, each of which has a binary degree of guilt.

mikeyouse 3y ago
And the gradient of sentencing for the convictions -- defrauding people of $1 gets you less jail time that defrauding people out of $100k, which gets you less jail time than defrauding people out of $100M.
- cubefox 3y ago
  Then what is the benefit of deciding between guilty / not guilty when all the importance lies in the degree of guilt?
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    Because 'not guilty' gets you 0 years in jail? Fake numbers but say you shot and killed someone -- the law (and related sentences) can accomodate a wide variety of scenarios which will lead to a wide variety of punishments. E.g. if you were cleaning a gun and it went off, you could be charged with involuntary manslaughter and face 5 years, or if you were in a fight and pulled a gun you could be charged with voluntary manslaughter and face 10 years, or if the fight seemed avoidable it could be a 3rd degree homicide charge facing 15 years, or if you shot them will robbing a bank, it could be a 2nd degree homicide facing 20 years, or if you planned an assassination and shot someone, it could be 1st degree homicide where you would face life. There's a binary "guilty / not guilty" but on the guilty branch, each of those sentences has enhancements that will determine your length of incarceration. Was this your first crime? Were you on drugs? Was the robbery over $5 or over $50k? and so on and so on.
cubefox 3y ago
A "binary degree of guilt" sounds like a contradiction in terms.