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Is there any place in the world where it isn't that way? Honest question. How could SBF pay his victims back fully if he doesn't have enough assets?

Zetobal 3y ago
Maybe early access to his next scam some of them would probably do it. lol.
dlp211 3y ago
But they are going to be made whole, or nearly so. It may take a while, but the guy they brought in to untangle FTX is the same guy that untangled Enron. He's said that FTX always had enough assets to cover its obligation, at least on paper, it just sucked at keeping track of them.
- StressedDev 3y ago
  He never said FTX had enough assets to repay its creditors. Even worse, many of FTX’s assets are worthless (the FTT tokens are a prime example of this). What he said was he had never seen a company with such atrocious record keeping. BTW, the US government would not have charged Sam Bankman-Fried with fraud if the money was all there.
- therealcamino 3y ago
  Those are separate issues -- whether crimes were committed, and whether depositors will be made whole eventually. If some of the bets they illegally made end up paying off, enough to reimburse the people who trusted them, that doesn't mean it was legal or ok to take that money to make their own bets with in the first place. And while John Ray did say they were bad at record keeping, he also said that “This is just old fashioned embezzlement, taking money from others and using it for your own purposes,” he said. “This is not sophisticated at all.”
coldtea 3y ago
>Is there any place in the world where it isn't that way? Honest question. Yes, many cultures don't have this Old Testament idea about justice, as if they take delight in seeing the prisoner suffering. This is more about sadism than justice. This is how they can be OK with treating criminals humanely, not focusing on revenge and punishment but rehabilitation, not having the death penalty, giving lighter sentences, etc. Or even to have prisons that look more like motels - like the Nordic prisons.
- lazide 3y ago
  Seems like you’re pretty far off on a tangent? What does this have to do with SBF? And if you think the US prison system is bad, wait until you see…. Well everyone else’s except a handful of Western European countries prisons.
  - chmod775 3y ago
    "If you think I'm a slow runner, just wait until you see my son's primary school class!" Compare yourself to your peers. What's the point of merely trying to be better than Rwanda.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Have you ever even been to Rwanda? Or are you just talking out of your ass?
      - coldtea 3y ago
        You don't need to have visited a place to be informed about some aspect of it, or to have a good enough idea based on related facts about it and the region's track record to use it as an example in casual conversation. In any case, here you go: "Prison conditions in Rwanda today remain harsh and harrowing – especially for those incarcerated for daring or perceived by the authorities to challenge the government’s narrative. Today Rwanda’s prisons are overcrowded at 174% of capacity – with the second highest incarceration population rate (that is, the number of prisoners per 100,000 of the national population) outside America, according to the Institute for Crime & Justice Policy Research. The institute listed Rwanda’s total prison population at just over 76,000 – out of a national population of a little over 13 million. Rwanda’s prisoners include thousands detained in connection with the 1994 genocide, the report added". or "significant human rights issues included credible reports of: unlawful or arbitrary killings; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by the government; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions" I think you're under the wrong impression that when the parent said "Rwanda" they meant Rwanda specifically, and they didn't just use it as a stand-in for "well known third world country" with the understanding that such countries usually have horrible prison conditions.
chmod775 3y ago
Suppose your brother committed a crime. Do you care more about him being punished, or about him turning his life around and making amends for his actions? Maybe from that perspective it's easier to understand why some other closer-knit societies don't value punishment as highly.
- 4death4 3y ago
  Is that really true though? Singapore, for instance, is notorious harsh, but few would call it
- lazide 3y ago
  Action without consequences is action undeterred. As many folks with problem family have had to learn.
  - chmod775 3y ago
    Even in societies that put less emphasis on punishment, there are still consequences. I wonder who told you otherwise.
    - lazide 3y ago
      You seemed to, or is your rebuttal not a rebuttal?
      - chmod775 3y ago
        A rebuttal of which statement? My comment tries to explain a different mindset to someone who seemed surprised that it exists at all, not directly answering their honest question, but rather trying to create understanding of that different way of thinking. There's no rebuttal here, because there was no statement that could be rebutted - assuming that was actually a honest question I replied to.
- hardlianotion 3y ago
  Examples of these closer societies might be helpful, and how they do things differently.
dylan604 3y ago
How can he pay them back if he's in jail? I'm not saying he shouldn't be sent to jail, but the whole concept of expecting someone to pay someone else back by being in jail has always just struck me as strange.

Zetobal 3y ago

Maybe early access to his next scam some of them would probably do it. lol.

dlp211 3y ago

But they are going to be made whole, or nearly so. It may take a while, but the guy they brought in to untangle FTX is the same guy that untangled Enron. He's said that FTX always had enough assets to cover its obligation, at least on paper, it just sucked at keeping track of them.

StressedDev 3y ago
He never said FTX had enough assets to repay its creditors. Even worse, many of FTX’s assets are worthless (the FTT tokens are a prime example of this). What he said was he had never seen a company with such atrocious record keeping. BTW, the US government would not have charged Sam Bankman-Fried with fraud if the money was all there.
therealcamino 3y ago
Those are separate issues -- whether crimes were committed, and whether depositors will be made whole eventually. If some of the bets they illegally made end up paying off, enough to reimburse the people who trusted them, that doesn't mean it was legal or ok to take that money to make their own bets with in the first place. And while John Ray did say they were bad at record keeping, he also said that “This is just old fashioned embezzlement, taking money from others and using it for your own purposes,” he said. “This is not sophisticated at all.”

coldtea 3y ago

>Is there any place in the world where it isn't that way? Honest question. Yes, many cultures don't have this Old Testament idea about justice, as if they take delight in seeing the prisoner suffering. This is more about sadism than justice. This is how they can be OK with treating criminals humanely, not focusing on revenge and punishment but rehabilitation, not having the death penalty, giving lighter sentences, etc. Or even to have prisons that look more like motels - like the Nordic prisons.

lazide 3y ago
Seems like you’re pretty far off on a tangent? What does this have to do with SBF? And if you think the US prison system is bad, wait until you see…. Well everyone else’s except a handful of Western European countries prisons.
- chmod775 3y ago
  "If you think I'm a slow runner, just wait until you see my son's primary school class!" Compare yourself to your peers. What's the point of merely trying to be better than Rwanda.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Have you ever even been to Rwanda? Or are you just talking out of your ass?
    - coldtea 3y ago
      You don't need to have visited a place to be informed about some aspect of it, or to have a good enough idea based on related facts about it and the region's track record to use it as an example in casual conversation. In any case, here you go: "Prison conditions in Rwanda today remain harsh and harrowing – especially for those incarcerated for daring or perceived by the authorities to challenge the government’s narrative. Today Rwanda’s prisons are overcrowded at 174% of capacity – with the second highest incarceration population rate (that is, the number of prisoners per 100,000 of the national population) outside America, according to the Institute for Crime & Justice Policy Research. The institute listed Rwanda’s total prison population at just over 76,000 – out of a national population of a little over 13 million. Rwanda’s prisoners include thousands detained in connection with the 1994 genocide, the report added". or "significant human rights issues included credible reports of: unlawful or arbitrary killings; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by the government; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions" I think you're under the wrong impression that when the parent said "Rwanda" they meant Rwanda specifically, and they didn't just use it as a stand-in for "well known third world country" with the understanding that such countries usually have horrible prison conditions.

chmod775 3y ago

Suppose your brother committed a crime. Do you care more about him being punished, or about him turning his life around and making amends for his actions? Maybe from that perspective it's easier to understand why some other closer-knit societies don't value punishment as highly.

4death4 3y ago
Is that really true though? Singapore, for instance, is notorious harsh, but few would call it
lazide 3y ago
Action without consequences is action undeterred. As many folks with problem family have had to learn.
- chmod775 3y ago
  Even in societies that put less emphasis on punishment, there are still consequences. I wonder who told you otherwise.
  - lazide 3y ago
    You seemed to, or is your rebuttal not a rebuttal?
    - chmod775 3y ago
      A rebuttal of which statement? My comment tries to explain a different mindset to someone who seemed surprised that it exists at all, not directly answering their honest question, but rather trying to create understanding of that different way of thinking. There's no rebuttal here, because there was no statement that could be rebutted - assuming that was actually a honest question I replied to.
hardlianotion 3y ago
Examples of these closer societies might be helpful, and how they do things differently.

dylan604 3y ago

How can he pay them back if he's in jail? I'm not saying he shouldn't be sent to jail, but the whole concept of expecting someone to pay someone else back by being in jail has always just struck me as strange.