7 ms·

Neither here nor there, but I just read an article today about how a bunch of birds are being renamed, because of 'harmful' views by Audobon et al https://apne

Neither here nor there, but I just read an article today about how a bunch of birds are being renamed, because of 'harmful' views by Audobon et al https://apnews.com/article/bird-renaming-american-ornithological-society-aee0f0b0d1cc9ae3326bc44a2d1f55e8 https://apnews.com/article/bird-renaming-american-ornitholog...

oooyay 3y ago
John Audubon was a slaver outside of his contributions to birding. That's why all the "Audubon Societies" are changing their names. The rest of the birds are birds named after people and the general decree is to rename all birds named after people and never name things after people again. They'll all have descriptive names now.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Neither here nor there, but my alma mater (TCNJ) renamed a building a few years ago - from "Loser Hall" to "Trenton Hall". Paul Loser was the superintendent of the Trenton school system in the early 20th century, and he was in support of segregation of black people into separate school systems. So, a reasonable renaming I think. But renaming it Trenton is itself problematic - Trenton is named after William Trent, a merchant who became one of the richest men in Philadelphia by trading, among other things, literal boatloads of slaves, which seems strictly worse than believing "merely" in segregation.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    I think the most silly version is that King County in Washington, named after a pro slavery vice president, was renamed… to King County, in honor of Martin Luther King Jr.
    - GauntletWizard 3y ago
      That's the least silly - it cost nothing in confusion and chaos, they slowly replaced the branding, and (almost, unless you really, really hate philanderers) everyone agrees the new subject was a great man.
      - bobthepanda 3y ago
        Right, it’s a low-effort cop out without any actual hard work.
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      Wait until you hear about Judge Perez Drive in St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana.
    - kbelder 3y ago
      In a nearby city, we had a 'Dead Indian Highway'. It was eventually renamed to 'Dead Indian Memorial Highway'.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > That's why all the "Audubon Societies" are changing their names. According to the article, the National Audubon Society is keeping their name, which I think is probably for the best. Renaming birds named after people is a good idea too, but it's nice to be able acknowledge that people can do amazing things that deserve recognition while also doing terrible things that deserve to be condemned. The blanket painting of people as either heroes or villains is childish and doesn't reflect reality or the complex nature of what it is to be human. Renaming the National Audubon Society would make about as much sense as renaming the Washington Monument. A history of slavery is something that has tainted the pasts of human civilizations all over the globe and slavery continues to be a something we all profit from even today (which is something I think we may all be judged as "evil" for). In the US it's a very large and shameful part of our history, but I think it's probably better to face that openly rather than to try and sweep that shame under the rug by erasing anyone involved.
  - chottocharaii 3y ago
    OTOH slavery is so morally abhorrent that it far outweighs any positive contributions a person might make in their lifetime. I think its good that society condemns it in the strongest possible manner, including by renaming
    - autoexec 3y ago
      I can understand that others won't feel the same way I do. Would you then support renaming the Washington monument? Removing any mention of his name from history books, or taking him off of our money? Should we take "Washington Crossing the Delaware" down from the walls of The Met and burn it? I don't think that the bad things someone does should cause us to pretend that the good things never happened. We should see people for who they were, the good and the bad, even if in the end there was more of one than the other. It might even be that the worse someone was, the more important it is that we shouldn't forget the good things. It helps remind us that everyone has the capacity for (and a history of) acts both good and evil and that even those who have done terrible things that could never be "made up for" (if that's ever even possible) are/were still capable of making the choice to do something wonderful.
- mannyv 3y ago
  Not all the audubon societies are changing. IMO it's ridiculous. Why not change the name of the Democratic parry while they're at it? They were the party of slavers.
  - hooverd 3y ago
    Well, the Democratic party isn't named after a particular person for one.
    - Rebelgecko 3y ago
      Democratic is derived from the Greek "δῆμος", which was a term used to delineate free people from slaves
      - mjan22640 3y ago
        Demos means people, while slaves in antiquity were not considered people but living tools.
- enw 3y ago
  It's ridiculous. If we measured all past without nuance and with the fleeting standards of some people of today, everything would be abhorrent. I'm sad to see this way of thinking permeate so deep in our culture.
kristopolous 3y ago
It doesn't look like any of them were comically racist and were just named after questionable people. I was hoping there'd be things so antiquated you'd have to look it up, eg: stereotypes about people from Dalmatia or Tyrol based on some scandal from 1832.

oooyay 3y ago

John Audubon was a slaver outside of his contributions to birding. That's why all the "Audubon Societies" are changing their names. The rest of the birds are birds named after people and the general decree is to rename all birds named after people and never name things after people again. They'll all have descriptive names now.

oh_sigh 3y ago
Neither here nor there, but my alma mater (TCNJ) renamed a building a few years ago - from "Loser Hall" to "Trenton Hall". Paul Loser was the superintendent of the Trenton school system in the early 20th century, and he was in support of segregation of black people into separate school systems. So, a reasonable renaming I think. But renaming it Trenton is itself problematic - Trenton is named after William Trent, a merchant who became one of the richest men in Philadelphia by trading, among other things, literal boatloads of slaves, which seems strictly worse than believing "merely" in segregation.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  I think the most silly version is that King County in Washington, named after a pro slavery vice president, was renamed… to King County, in honor of Martin Luther King Jr.
  - GauntletWizard 3y ago
    That's the least silly - it cost nothing in confusion and chaos, they slowly replaced the branding, and (almost, unless you really, really hate philanderers) everyone agrees the new subject was a great man.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      Right, it’s a low-effort cop out without any actual hard work.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    Wait until you hear about Judge Perez Drive in St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana.
  - kbelder 3y ago
    In a nearby city, we had a 'Dead Indian Highway'. It was eventually renamed to 'Dead Indian Memorial Highway'.
autoexec 3y ago
> That's why all the "Audubon Societies" are changing their names. According to the article, the National Audubon Society is keeping their name, which I think is probably for the best. Renaming birds named after people is a good idea too, but it's nice to be able acknowledge that people can do amazing things that deserve recognition while also doing terrible things that deserve to be condemned. The blanket painting of people as either heroes or villains is childish and doesn't reflect reality or the complex nature of what it is to be human. Renaming the National Audubon Society would make about as much sense as renaming the Washington Monument. A history of slavery is something that has tainted the pasts of human civilizations all over the globe and slavery continues to be a something we all profit from even today (which is something I think we may all be judged as "evil" for). In the US it's a very large and shameful part of our history, but I think it's probably better to face that openly rather than to try and sweep that shame under the rug by erasing anyone involved.
- chottocharaii 3y ago
  OTOH slavery is so morally abhorrent that it far outweighs any positive contributions a person might make in their lifetime. I think its good that society condemns it in the strongest possible manner, including by renaming
  - autoexec 3y ago
    I can understand that others won't feel the same way I do. Would you then support renaming the Washington monument? Removing any mention of his name from history books, or taking him off of our money? Should we take "Washington Crossing the Delaware" down from the walls of The Met and burn it? I don't think that the bad things someone does should cause us to pretend that the good things never happened. We should see people for who they were, the good and the bad, even if in the end there was more of one than the other. It might even be that the worse someone was, the more important it is that we shouldn't forget the good things. It helps remind us that everyone has the capacity for (and a history of) acts both good and evil and that even those who have done terrible things that could never be "made up for" (if that's ever even possible) are/were still capable of making the choice to do something wonderful.
mannyv 3y ago
Not all the audubon societies are changing. IMO it's ridiculous. Why not change the name of the Democratic parry while they're at it? They were the party of slavers.
- hooverd 3y ago
  Well, the Democratic party isn't named after a particular person for one.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    Democratic is derived from the Greek "δῆμος", which was a term used to delineate free people from slaves
    - mjan22640 3y ago
      Demos means people, while slaves in antiquity were not considered people but living tools.
enw 3y ago
It's ridiculous. If we measured all past without nuance and with the fleeting standards of some people of today, everything would be abhorrent. I'm sad to see this way of thinking permeate so deep in our culture.

kristopolous 3y ago

It doesn't look like any of them were comically racist and were just named after questionable people. I was hoping there'd be things so antiquated you'd have to look it up, eg: stereotypes about people from Dalmatia or Tyrol based on some scandal from 1832.