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Personally until driving an EV matches the exact same experience as a gas car ..I.e filling car at gas station takes three minutes & same amount of ev chargers

Personally until driving an EV matches the exact same experience as a gas car ..I.e filling car at gas station takes three minutes & same amount of ev chargers as gas stations through the US (in same varied locations) then I have no interest in spending more money to be inconvenienced. Again just my opinion / preference yet EV sales are down and maybe not just my own preference.

thejazzman 3y ago
Most people with an EV wake up everyday with more range than they need; you're spending more "time" refueling than they are
recursive 3y ago
EVs will never be identical to ICE. But it's also true already EVs are more convenient and safe in some ways. These arguments have been hashed and rehashed, so I won't draw it out. But you can fill at home, never need an oil change, and can run the car without fumes. They're different enough that they're never going to be better in every conceivable metric. Much like how cars aren't better than horses or bicycles in every conceivable way.
thebruce87m 3y ago
IF you can charge at home it’s fine. You have to change your thinking. Those 3 minutes you spend filling up are saved. You might then spend some of them on long trips. I have spent the same amount of time waiting for my mobile phone to charge as my car - 0 minutes, it charges when I sleep. On long trips it’s normally a 15 min charge every 2 - 3 hours and I’ve normally went to the toilet or grabbed something to eat anyway so it’s not really extra time. It’s just different. Lots of people are incapable of planning or research which is the biggest issue for the masses. They haven’t quite “idiot proofed” the whole process.
- zoover2020 3y ago
  Agreed. This whole discussion is really fueled (ha!) by a lot of ignorance on the subject. Going into my third year as an EV owner and am really happy
  - paul7986 3y ago
    Auto execs are coming clean:EVs aren't working https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean-evs-arent-working-2023-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean...
- paul7986 3y ago
  Exactly idiot proof ..as a user experience designer that's how I design and thus how I live ... idiot proof is simplicity. Apple strives for minimalist and simple user experiences that's how I design and again how I live life. Also I drive everywhere (many long road trips as I work remotely from anywhere) and frequently including in places where there's only one gas station. It's not for everyone and again EV sales lately have been declining and Telsa is cutting the cost of their EVs to sell them. Overall getting downvoted for saying EVs aren't for me and why. Can't have a opinion against EVs on HN.
- 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
  About 44 million people, or 36% of renters, live in apartments, according to NMHC. There is no apparent plan to provide at-home charging for these folks.
elsonrodriguez 3y ago
We are a few wars in the Middle East and a wet bulb event or two away from this type of argument falling into the “get a horse” bin.
- paul7986 3y ago
  Why are EV sales down and Ford is moving /embracing hydrogen. Those are data market points not just my own opinion. I drive everywhere and frequently some in remote areas where there's no chargers but there's a gas station. Not a kool aid drinker rather someone pragmatic and usually on the money with my forward thoughts I.e. look at my comments from the past two months against Cruise robot cars ...frat bros trying to kill it and doing anything to do so ..reminded me of Ubers attempt at self driving n we all see what happened with them and now Cruise.
  - rcxdude 3y ago
    Are EV sales down? Just about everything I can find is saying they are going up. And ford has a small trial of hydrogen vans which doesn't seem to be getting anywhere near the investment of their battery EVs.
    - paul7986 3y ago
      "And yet, electric vehicles are piling up at dealership lots." November 1st 2023 ... other article is from April. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/why-dealers-say-ev-sales-have-slowed.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/why-dealers-say-ev-sales-hav... A entire youtube CNBC piece on this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlsZwcIgpc&t=10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlsZwcIgpc&t=10s But i can always go and check at various Telsa dealers as the media spins its own narrative ... Musk is now labeled pro-right. CNBC is more left ... not a fan of the news .. what to believe except EVs aren't for me as I drive frequently and many times in remote places.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
        That doesn't mean sales are down, it just means that they're being built faster than they're sold. Car manufacturers are already adjusting their build plans.
ajross 3y ago
> ..I.e filling car at gas station takes three minutes & same amount of ev chargers as gas stations through the US Counterpoint: I'll never again buy a liquid fueled vehicle unless someone can figure out how to put a pump in my garage. People who want to argue about EV charging experience fail to realize that for the bulk of buyers, that stuff only matters on road trips. The remaining 95% of the time, we have cars that literally never need to go to a "fueling station" at all, ever. Objectively my Model Y spends probably less than 10% of the time "fueling" than any car I've ever owned, simply because it takes me all of 3-4 seconds to plug and unplug it vs. driving to and from gas stations.
_yb2s 3y ago
Most people rarely drive outside the range of a modern EV. If you do frequently, you can have two cars, or buy a plug in hybrid... I think "range extender" EVs with a very small backup generator like the BMW i3 + rex are a pretty great solution to this problem. They can run on regular gasoline as needed, but keep pretty much all of the benefits of a regular EV as well.

thejazzman 3y ago

Most people with an EV wake up everyday with more range than they need; you're spending more "time" refueling than they are

recursive 3y ago

EVs will never be identical to ICE. But it's also true already EVs are more convenient and safe in some ways. These arguments have been hashed and rehashed, so I won't draw it out. But you can fill at home, never need an oil change, and can run the car without fumes. They're different enough that they're never going to be better in every conceivable metric. Much like how cars aren't better than horses or bicycles in every conceivable way.

thebruce87m 3y ago

IF you can charge at home it’s fine. You have to change your thinking. Those 3 minutes you spend filling up are saved. You might then spend some of them on long trips. I have spent the same amount of time waiting for my mobile phone to charge as my car - 0 minutes, it charges when I sleep. On long trips it’s normally a 15 min charge every 2 - 3 hours and I’ve normally went to the toilet or grabbed something to eat anyway so it’s not really extra time. It’s just different. Lots of people are incapable of planning or research which is the biggest issue for the masses. They haven’t quite “idiot proofed” the whole process.

zoover2020 3y ago
Agreed. This whole discussion is really fueled (ha!) by a lot of ignorance on the subject. Going into my third year as an EV owner and am really happy
- paul7986 3y ago
  Auto execs are coming clean:EVs aren't working https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean-evs-arent-working-2023-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean...
paul7986 3y ago
Exactly idiot proof ..as a user experience designer that's how I design and thus how I live ... idiot proof is simplicity. Apple strives for minimalist and simple user experiences that's how I design and again how I live life. Also I drive everywhere (many long road trips as I work remotely from anywhere) and frequently including in places where there's only one gas station. It's not for everyone and again EV sales lately have been declining and Telsa is cutting the cost of their EVs to sell them. Overall getting downvoted for saying EVs aren't for me and why. Can't have a opinion against EVs on HN.
0xbadcafebee 3y ago
About 44 million people, or 36% of renters, live in apartments, according to NMHC. There is no apparent plan to provide at-home charging for these folks.

elsonrodriguez 3y ago

We are a few wars in the Middle East and a wet bulb event or two away from this type of argument falling into the “get a horse” bin.

paul7986 3y ago
Why are EV sales down and Ford is moving /embracing hydrogen. Those are data market points not just my own opinion. I drive everywhere and frequently some in remote areas where there's no chargers but there's a gas station. Not a kool aid drinker rather someone pragmatic and usually on the money with my forward thoughts I.e. look at my comments from the past two months against Cruise robot cars ...frat bros trying to kill it and doing anything to do so ..reminded me of Ubers attempt at self driving n we all see what happened with them and now Cruise.
- rcxdude 3y ago
  Are EV sales down? Just about everything I can find is saying they are going up. And ford has a small trial of hydrogen vans which doesn't seem to be getting anywhere near the investment of their battery EVs.
  - paul7986 3y ago
    "And yet, electric vehicles are piling up at dealership lots." November 1st 2023 ... other article is from April. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/why-dealers-say-ev-sales-have-slowed.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/why-dealers-say-ev-sales-hav... A entire youtube CNBC piece on this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlsZwcIgpc&t=10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlsZwcIgpc&t=10s But i can always go and check at various Telsa dealers as the media spins its own narrative ... Musk is now labeled pro-right. CNBC is more left ... not a fan of the news .. what to believe except EVs aren't for me as I drive frequently and many times in remote places.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
      That doesn't mean sales are down, it just means that they're being built faster than they're sold. Car manufacturers are already adjusting their build plans.

ajross 3y ago

> ..I.e filling car at gas station takes three minutes & same amount of ev chargers as gas stations through the US Counterpoint: I'll never again buy a liquid fueled vehicle unless someone can figure out how to put a pump in my garage. People who want to argue about EV charging experience fail to realize that for the bulk of buyers, that stuff only matters on road trips. The remaining 95% of the time, we have cars that literally never need to go to a "fueling station" at all, ever. Objectively my Model Y spends probably less than 10% of the time "fueling" than any car I've ever owned, simply because it takes me all of 3-4 seconds to plug and unplug it vs. driving to and from gas stations.

_yb2s 3y ago

Most people rarely drive outside the range of a modern EV. If you do frequently, you can have two cars, or buy a plug in hybrid... I think "range extender" EVs with a very small backup generator like the BMW i3 + rex are a pretty great solution to this problem. They can run on regular gasoline as needed, but keep pretty much all of the benefits of a regular EV as well.