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>direct trade with the US has no impact on their availability in Cuba. This is factually very wrong. The US uses a variety of methods to enforce the embargo,

>direct trade with the US has no impact on their availability in Cuba. This is factually very wrong. The US uses a variety of methods to enforce the embargo, including sanctions on multinational corporations that provide goods to Cuba and pressure on other governments that the US provides funds or support to in other contexts (which is a lot of countries). It's not nearly as simple as "oh, Cuba can just buy the goods from other countries". Better hope that none of those goods are made by a company that has any legal presence in the US. Also there are like 6 decades worth of laws involved here, so before you think about selling goods to Cuba, better hire a dozen very expensive lawyers.

wolverine876 3y ago
Also, the US is by far the largest producer and buyer of goods in the region, as well as by far the largest source of finance and services. It would be difficult to have a successful economy without trading with the US.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > the largest source of finance Cuba being communist doesn't allow outside investments and they don't have any problems getting regular loans, so US financing wouldn't help their economy much at all.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    What is that based on? Who doesn't have problems getting loans? Everyone in Cuba?
    - Jensson 3y ago
      The government of Cuba doesn't have problems getting loans. For private citizens the biggest obstacle for them getting loans is the Cuban government not liking private enterprises or ownership, not the embargo. Cuba is moving towards a capitalist economy so it isn't that bad today though.
      - wolverine876 3y ago
        Again, what is that based on? Also, you said the Cuban government doesn't allow outside investments - where did you learn that?
        Jensson 3y ago
        > Again, what is that based on? They run a trade deficit of billions each year. How can they import goods for billions without being able to take on debt? Their debt is also increasing by billions per year. They wouldn't be able to do that if they couldn't get loans. > you said the Cuban government doesn't allow outside investments - where did you learn that? I based it on this from the wikipedia page: "In February 2016, the US government allowed two American men from Alabama to build a factory that will assemble as many as 1,000 small tractors a year for sale to private farmers in Cuba. The $5 million to $10 million plant would be the first significant US business investment on Cuban soil since 1959.[55][56] The deal was not authorized by Cuban authorities later that year because one of the owners had recently obtained Cuban citizenship. Factory ownership is still illegal in Cuba.[57]" I see now that I was mistaken. The problem was that Cuba doesn't allow their citizens to own means of production, foreign investors owning stuff is somehow more okay. Their legal landscape from foreign investors is still in the works though, not many wants to invest there when Cuba can just take whatever they built there at any point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20embargo%20against,trade%20embargo%20in%20modern%20history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_....
        wolverine876 3y ago
        > They run a trade deficit of billions each year. How can they import goods for billions without being able to take on debt? Their debt is also increasing by billions per year. > They wouldn't be able to do that if they couldn't get loans. Thanks for explaining what you meant. A couple thoughts: Because they can get some credit doesn't mean they can get enough or whatever they need. Access to US financial markets is highly desireable, especially because the US dollar is the usual currency of international trade; in fact, the US cuts of access to sanction people they don't like (Russia, Iran, etc.). Also, a trade deficit isn't debt, in the sense of a business with more expense than revenue; (inter)national macroeconomics are not the same as a private entity's microeconomics.

wolverine876 3y ago

Also, the US is by far the largest producer and buyer of goods in the region, as well as by far the largest source of finance and services. It would be difficult to have a successful economy without trading with the US.

Jensson 3y ago
> the largest source of finance Cuba being communist doesn't allow outside investments and they don't have any problems getting regular loans, so US financing wouldn't help their economy much at all.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  What is that based on? Who doesn't have problems getting loans? Everyone in Cuba?
  - Jensson 3y ago
    The government of Cuba doesn't have problems getting loans. For private citizens the biggest obstacle for them getting loans is the Cuban government not liking private enterprises or ownership, not the embargo. Cuba is moving towards a capitalist economy so it isn't that bad today though.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      Again, what is that based on? Also, you said the Cuban government doesn't allow outside investments - where did you learn that?
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > Again, what is that based on? They run a trade deficit of billions each year. How can they import goods for billions without being able to take on debt? Their debt is also increasing by billions per year. They wouldn't be able to do that if they couldn't get loans. > you said the Cuban government doesn't allow outside investments - where did you learn that? I based it on this from the wikipedia page: "In February 2016, the US government allowed two American men from Alabama to build a factory that will assemble as many as 1,000 small tractors a year for sale to private farmers in Cuba. The $5 million to $10 million plant would be the first significant US business investment on Cuban soil since 1959.[55][56] The deal was not authorized by Cuban authorities later that year because one of the owners had recently obtained Cuban citizenship. Factory ownership is still illegal in Cuba.[57]" I see now that I was mistaken. The problem was that Cuba doesn't allow their citizens to own means of production, foreign investors owning stuff is somehow more okay. Their legal landscape from foreign investors is still in the works though, not many wants to invest there when Cuba can just take whatever they built there at any point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20embargo%20against,trade%20embargo%20in%20modern%20history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_....
        wolverine876 3y ago
        > They run a trade deficit of billions each year. How can they import goods for billions without being able to take on debt? Their debt is also increasing by billions per year. > They wouldn't be able to do that if they couldn't get loans. Thanks for explaining what you meant. A couple thoughts: Because they can get some credit doesn't mean they can get enough or whatever they need. Access to US financial markets is highly desireable, especially because the US dollar is the usual currency of international trade; in fact, the US cuts of access to sanction people they don't like (Russia, Iran, etc.). Also, a trade deficit isn't debt, in the sense of a business with more expense than revenue; (inter)national macroeconomics are not the same as a private entity's microeconomics.