4 ms·

I kinda want us to end the embargo just so the failures of the state of Cuba stopped being blamed on the USA.

26fingies 3y ago
So your hypothesis is that a country under decades of embargo would somehow do worse or at least no better after that embargo is lifted?
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  Just that they expect it to keep failing, I think. Presumably there is some threshold for success, and a slight enough improvement would still constitute failure.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- salamanderss 3y ago
  Hmm seems possible although unlikely. Last time we had more than a decade of free trade with Cuba we had quite the incentive to support Batista and various us interest dictators. The embargo probably helps keep certain interests out of their hair.
- hezralig 3y ago
  I also am fairly confused by that point. Cuba is effectively maintaining itself under an international embargo and somehow trains medical professionals from even the United States. Cuba also designed and produced multiple COVID vaccines that have held up compared to the vaccines rolled out globally. I am fairly impressed by what Cuba has accomplished under these conditions and resent how difficult the US has made it to vacation there (buying +1 hop of a plane ticket through Mexico). I go to Cuba from time to time for free health checks ups and cheap healthcare.
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    > maintaining itself this is not the best success metric in the modern world. > that have held up compared to the vaccines rolled out globally. probably according to Cuban government.
  - meepmorp 3y ago
    Cuba isn't under international embargo, it's basically just the US. And the UN has voted on this resolution with the exact same result for 30 years.
    - iamjake648 3y ago
      Yea, but this point is a bit disingenuous because ships that make port in Cuba can't then also then make port in the US. https://ofac.treasury.gov/faqs/779 https://ofac.treasury.gov/faqs/779 The US has a huge amount of influence on all global trade, regardless of it's with the US or not.
      - pkaye 3y ago
        Europe and Asia do have trade with Cuba. In fact Cuba imports more from US than from Canada or Mexico. https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub?yearlyTradeFlowSelector=flow0 https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub?yearlyTradeFlowSele...
      - meepmorp 3y ago
        That sounds like a minor inconvenience, at worst.
        joshuahaglund 3y ago
        Do you know much about shipping and logistics? It's all about finding efficiencies. If a ship visits Cuba, it can't visit any American port for 180 days. Considering how close they are and how much smaller a market Cuba is, I imagine shippers would charge more for freight to/from Cuba because now that ship can't be used for trade with the US. That ship is limited to/from places farther than Cuba (which are also smaller and poorer than the US).
eh9 3y ago
That’s not how history works
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  It's how things can work going forward
lnenad 3y ago
You gotta give them 70 years before evaluation tho.
bawolff 3y ago
Sometimes i wonder if cuba would collapse if usa ended the embargo. Having an external enemy you can legit say is treating you unfairly is one hell of a unifying force.
Jensson 3y ago
Cuba wont fail if the embargo ended today, they are already moving to a capitalist economy like China did. Started 2021. https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/7/19/as-cubas-private-sector-roars-back-choices-and-inequality-rise https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/7/19/as-cubas-private...

So your hypothesis is that a country under decades of embargo would somehow do worse or at least no better after that embargo is lifted?

pfannkuchen 3y ago
Just that they expect it to keep failing, I think. Presumably there is some threshold for success, and a slight enough improvement would still constitute failure.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
salamanderss 3y ago
Hmm seems possible although unlikely. Last time we had more than a decade of free trade with Cuba we had quite the incentive to support Batista and various us interest dictators. The embargo probably helps keep certain interests out of their hair.
hezralig 3y ago
I also am fairly confused by that point. Cuba is effectively maintaining itself under an international embargo and somehow trains medical professionals from even the United States. Cuba also designed and produced multiple COVID vaccines that have held up compared to the vaccines rolled out globally. I am fairly impressed by what Cuba has accomplished under these conditions and resent how difficult the US has made it to vacation there (buying +1 hop of a plane ticket through Mexico). I go to Cuba from time to time for free health checks ups and cheap healthcare.
- riku_iki 3y ago
  > maintaining itself this is not the best success metric in the modern world. > that have held up compared to the vaccines rolled out globally. probably according to Cuban government.
- meepmorp 3y ago
  Cuba isn't under international embargo, it's basically just the US. And the UN has voted on this resolution with the exact same result for 30 years.
  - iamjake648 3y ago
    Yea, but this point is a bit disingenuous because ships that make port in Cuba can't then also then make port in the US. https://ofac.treasury.gov/faqs/779 https://ofac.treasury.gov/faqs/779 The US has a huge amount of influence on all global trade, regardless of it's with the US or not.
    - pkaye 3y ago
      Europe and Asia do have trade with Cuba. In fact Cuba imports more from US than from Canada or Mexico. https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub?yearlyTradeFlowSelector=flow0 https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub?yearlyTradeFlowSele...
    - meepmorp 3y ago
      That sounds like a minor inconvenience, at worst.
      - joshuahaglund 3y ago
        Do you know much about shipping and logistics? It's all about finding efficiencies. If a ship visits Cuba, it can't visit any American port for 180 days. Considering how close they are and how much smaller a market Cuba is, I imagine shippers would charge more for freight to/from Cuba because now that ship can't be used for trade with the US. That ship is limited to/from places farther than Cuba (which are also smaller and poorer than the US).

eh9 3y ago

That’s not how history works

ajmurmann 3y ago
It's how things can work going forward

lnenad 3y ago

You gotta give them 70 years before evaluation tho.

bawolff 3y ago

Sometimes i wonder if cuba would collapse if usa ended the embargo. Having an external enemy you can legit say is treating you unfairly is one hell of a unifying force.

Jensson 3y ago

Cuba wont fail if the embargo ended today, they are already moving to a capitalist economy like China did. Started 2021. https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/7/19/as-cubas-private-sector-roars-back-choices-and-inequality-rise https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/7/19/as-cubas-private...