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From the article: is "Abortion should be completely illegal" an intolerant view? I don't agree with the statement, but if someone agrees with that because they

From the article: is "Abortion should be completely illegal" an intolerant view? I don't agree with the statement, but if someone agrees with that because they believe that life begins at conception and a fetus should have the same rights as a post-birth human: could you explain the intolerance there?

roflyear 3y ago
> is "Abortion should be completely illegal" an intolerant view? Some would argue it is.
- hnthrowaway6543 3y ago
  So by your own admission, what speech counts as "intolerance" is not universal and subject to interpretation. Could you explain who is responsible for deciding which views are considered intolerant, so that we know which speech we should not tolerate?
  - saghm 3y ago
    > Could you explain who is responsible for deciding which views are considered intolerant, so that we know which speech we should not tolerate? For starters, how about "people who aren't enrolled or employed at a private organization have no standing to demand access to the private organizations resources for amplifying their speech"? We can take a head count of people who are against this idea by having them publicly sign a petition demanding for support for a pro-choice speaking tour kicking off at Liberty University with stops in Notre Dame and BYU.
sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago
For most who hold it, this position is backed by the person's religious beliefs. It is intolerant because the implementation of their position is, in effect, forcing others to abide by their religious beliefs. In addition to that, the implementations tend to be misogynistic, racist, and/or classist.
- hnthrowaway6543 3y ago
  > For most who hold it, this position is backed by the person's religious beliefs. It is intolerant because the implementation of their position is, in effect, forcing others to abide by their religious beliefs. Is that not the case for many laws and cultural norms? Why is public nudity, or even public sex, illegal (in most/many places) if not religious beliefs? Do you think people should be allowed to have sex in public? If not, are you not being intolerant and forcing your religious and cultural beliefs upon others?
  - AlexandrB 3y ago
    This ground has been tread many times already, but saying abortion should be illegal is closer to saying people must have sex in public. In both cases you're compelling a person to use (and abuse) their body a certain way (for ~9 months in the case of a pregnancy). But even setting that aside, most anti-abortion advocates "give the game away" by also advocating against contraception. Their primary concern is not "murder", it's sex.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago
    Many of our laws were at least initially produced in a religious or other framework that implies universal morality. I am in favor of reviewing and reconsidering laws where we can't seem to find a non-religious justification. For the public sex example you raise, we have plenty of evidence and experience that shows the further you get away from adults doing consensual sexual things either alone or around other consenting adults, the more likely it is that someone may be psychologically harmed. Getting the consent of everyone in a public setting is pretty hard. Aside from religious folk, most people don't have a problem with strip clubs, sex clubs, sex parties, nude beaches, etc where a bunch of consenting adults are naked and/or behaving sexually around other consenting adults. So no, I don't think people should be allowed to have sex in public, and it is not based in religious or cultural belief. It's based on evidence that non-consensual sexual situations (including observing someone else's sexual behavior) causes harm, and that it violates others' right to not consent to the sexual situation.
- pton_xd 3y ago
TheCoelacanth 3y ago
Abortion is often a life-saving operation. "Abortion should be completely illegal" is an assertion that some people in the audience should be dead. Yes, that is an intolerant view.
- Boatfaceing 3y ago
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- Boatfaceing 3y ago
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roflyear 3y ago

> is "Abortion should be completely illegal" an intolerant view? Some would argue it is.

hnthrowaway6543 3y ago
So by your own admission, what speech counts as "intolerance" is not universal and subject to interpretation. Could you explain who is responsible for deciding which views are considered intolerant, so that we know which speech we should not tolerate?
- saghm 3y ago
  > Could you explain who is responsible for deciding which views are considered intolerant, so that we know which speech we should not tolerate? For starters, how about "people who aren't enrolled or employed at a private organization have no standing to demand access to the private organizations resources for amplifying their speech"? We can take a head count of people who are against this idea by having them publicly sign a petition demanding for support for a pro-choice speaking tour kicking off at Liberty University with stops in Notre Dame and BYU.

sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago

For most who hold it, this position is backed by the person's religious beliefs. It is intolerant because the implementation of their position is, in effect, forcing others to abide by their religious beliefs. In addition to that, the implementations tend to be misogynistic, racist, and/or classist.

hnthrowaway6543 3y ago
> For most who hold it, this position is backed by the person's religious beliefs. It is intolerant because the implementation of their position is, in effect, forcing others to abide by their religious beliefs. Is that not the case for many laws and cultural norms? Why is public nudity, or even public sex, illegal (in most/many places) if not religious beliefs? Do you think people should be allowed to have sex in public? If not, are you not being intolerant and forcing your religious and cultural beliefs upon others?
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  This ground has been tread many times already, but saying abortion should be illegal is closer to saying people must have sex in public. In both cases you're compelling a person to use (and abuse) their body a certain way (for ~9 months in the case of a pregnancy). But even setting that aside, most anti-abortion advocates "give the game away" by also advocating against contraception. Their primary concern is not "murder", it's sex.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago
  Many of our laws were at least initially produced in a religious or other framework that implies universal morality. I am in favor of reviewing and reconsidering laws where we can't seem to find a non-religious justification. For the public sex example you raise, we have plenty of evidence and experience that shows the further you get away from adults doing consensual sexual things either alone or around other consenting adults, the more likely it is that someone may be psychologically harmed. Getting the consent of everyone in a public setting is pretty hard. Aside from religious folk, most people don't have a problem with strip clubs, sex clubs, sex parties, nude beaches, etc where a bunch of consenting adults are naked and/or behaving sexually around other consenting adults. So no, I don't think people should be allowed to have sex in public, and it is not based in religious or cultural belief. It's based on evidence that non-consensual sexual situations (including observing someone else's sexual behavior) causes harm, and that it violates others' right to not consent to the sexual situation.
pton_xd 3y ago

TheCoelacanth 3y ago

Abortion is often a life-saving operation. "Abortion should be completely illegal" is an assertion that some people in the audience should be dead. Yes, that is an intolerant view.

Boatfaceing 3y ago
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Boatfaceing 3y ago
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