4 ms·

Yes, absolutely yes. It’s not the popular views that need to be defended, it’s the unpopular speech that does

bryanlarsen 3y ago
Unpopular speech needs to be defended, but not intolerant speech that infringes upon the rights of others to their own speech. Intolerant and unpopular aren't synonyms.
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  How can speech infringe on the rights of others? Can you give an example?
  - ericfrazier 3y ago
    Stochastic Terrorism
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Shouting while others are talking, both literally and figuratively.
    - Georgelemental 3y ago
      > figuratively Can you give an example?
- RationalDino 3y ago
  20 years ago I would have reflexively agreed with your statement. But today, many of the most intolerant people out there are loudly proclaiming their tolerance. And because their intolerance comes clothed in rhetoric about their tolerance, they are blind to the fact of their own intolerance. And so we get people like the guy in Los Angeles a few days ago where a guy kicked his way into a Jewish family's home while yelling, "Kill the Jews," and, "Brown people matter!" I therefore am left wondering whether I agree with you. Do we agree on which speech is intolerant speech? It's no longer something that I can just take for granted these days.
  - escapedmoose 3y ago
    You can recognize that this is a very fringe case and not typical behavior of the “cancel culture” crowd, right? Some people will choose “tolerance” as a convenient cover for objectively bad behavior, but a good number of popular “cancelation” calls are reasonably motivated when you look at them on a case-by-case basis. You’ll likely not agree with all of them, but there’s at least sensible reasoning behind them. Especially in examples like college campus speakers, where an invite for a speaker can be seen as the institution’s endorsement of the speaker’s belief.
    - belorn 3y ago
      Having a speaker's belief being potentially seen as being endorsement by the university for the decision of inviting the speaker to talk is a rather far leap from speech that infringes upon the rights of others to their own speech. I think we should question why people would associate a university with every guest speaker and everything they say as being authoritative statements of the university and their staff.
      - escapedmoose 3y ago
        Unlike social media platforms, any given university only has so many physical spaces, blocks of time, advertising and logistics resources, etc. to host speakers. They’re selectively chosen and coordinated. So when a speaker is invited who is, for example, blatantly hostile to the advertised mission of the university, it raises eyebrows. And it paints a contradictory pictures that devalues the university itself. Or worse, if the message is blatantly hostile to a subset of students, it could discourage some people from even wanting to attend! People work hard to get accepted to universities which they respect, and they have a vested interest in maintaining their university’s respect in the public eye.
        belorn 3y ago
        Could you elaborate your point in how that infringes upon the rights of others to their own speech? I can see from your point several value loaded points where students will disagree with each other. The advertised mission of the university being one of them, as people often argue what the point of university training is and how much of education is learning things, research, and social networking. Then there is things like the student theater, which are often not just blatantly hostile to a subset of students and very much discourage some people from wanting to attend to social events. Then we have fraternities and sororities which activity often paints a unfavorable pictures of university life, even going so far as being occasionally borderline criminal in their activities. What should be a appropriate response to students who disagree on how the university experience should be?

Unpopular speech needs to be defended, but not intolerant speech that infringes upon the rights of others to their own speech. Intolerant and unpopular aren't synonyms.

Georgelemental 3y ago
How can speech infringe on the rights of others? Can you give an example?
- ericfrazier 3y ago
  Stochastic Terrorism
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Shouting while others are talking, both literally and figuratively.
  - Georgelemental 3y ago
    > figuratively Can you give an example?
RationalDino 3y ago
20 years ago I would have reflexively agreed with your statement. But today, many of the most intolerant people out there are loudly proclaiming their tolerance. And because their intolerance comes clothed in rhetoric about their tolerance, they are blind to the fact of their own intolerance. And so we get people like the guy in Los Angeles a few days ago where a guy kicked his way into a Jewish family's home while yelling, "Kill the Jews," and, "Brown people matter!" I therefore am left wondering whether I agree with you. Do we agree on which speech is intolerant speech? It's no longer something that I can just take for granted these days.
- escapedmoose 3y ago
  You can recognize that this is a very fringe case and not typical behavior of the “cancel culture” crowd, right? Some people will choose “tolerance” as a convenient cover for objectively bad behavior, but a good number of popular “cancelation” calls are reasonably motivated when you look at them on a case-by-case basis. You’ll likely not agree with all of them, but there’s at least sensible reasoning behind them. Especially in examples like college campus speakers, where an invite for a speaker can be seen as the institution’s endorsement of the speaker’s belief.
  - belorn 3y ago
    Having a speaker's belief being potentially seen as being endorsement by the university for the decision of inviting the speaker to talk is a rather far leap from speech that infringes upon the rights of others to their own speech. I think we should question why people would associate a university with every guest speaker and everything they say as being authoritative statements of the university and their staff.
    - escapedmoose 3y ago
      Unlike social media platforms, any given university only has so many physical spaces, blocks of time, advertising and logistics resources, etc. to host speakers. They’re selectively chosen and coordinated. So when a speaker is invited who is, for example, blatantly hostile to the advertised mission of the university, it raises eyebrows. And it paints a contradictory pictures that devalues the university itself. Or worse, if the message is blatantly hostile to a subset of students, it could discourage some people from even wanting to attend! People work hard to get accepted to universities which they respect, and they have a vested interest in maintaining their university’s respect in the public eye.
      - belorn 3y ago
        Could you elaborate your point in how that infringes upon the rights of others to their own speech? I can see from your point several value loaded points where students will disagree with each other. The advertised mission of the university being one of them, as people often argue what the point of university training is and how much of education is learning things, research, and social networking. Then there is things like the student theater, which are often not just blatantly hostile to a subset of students and very much discourage some people from wanting to attend to social events. Then we have fraternities and sororities which activity often paints a unfavorable pictures of university life, even going so far as being occasionally borderline criminal in their activities. What should be a appropriate response to students who disagree on how the university experience should be?