4 ms·

Interesting, I didn't realize the connections were so deep. It does make sense. Do you think RPi might be hurt by not adopting RISC-V if it takes off? If som

Interesting, I didn't realize the connections were so deep. It does make sense. Do you think RPi might be hurt by not adopting RISC-V if it takes off? If some of their competitors offer it, could one of them dethrone RPi?

entropicdrifter 3y ago
Not the person you asked, but I have opinions: It'd depend entirely on the level of support a competitor offers, right? I mean that's why RPi is still so popular despite there having been a number of ARM competitors offering more power per dollar for like a decade now. The strong software support led to a strong community/overall ecosystem, which has led to a strong install base, which further improved the community and ecosystem. It's a combination of first mover advantage with continued strong software support that keeps them so prominent as-is. I don't see why a different ISA would fundamentally change that formula.
- runlaszlorun 3y ago
  Out of curiosity, who are the competitors who are competitive in power per dollar? I don’t follow the space closely but the times I’ve checked out other offerings, they’re not competitive in price/$ or it won’t have wifi or other features to be comparable. I actually started looking at older used desktops- which are fine for some uses and not so much for others.
  - hrrsn 3y ago
    Check out some of the RK3588-based SBCs. The Orange Pi 5 Plus is a fantastic alternative to the Raspberry Pi 5 if you're okay with a bit of fiddling as mainline kernel support is still a work in progress.
    - wpm 3y ago
      I just got a Pi Zero 2 W and it seems like I won't be able to connect it to a WPA3 WiFi network (standard's only been out, oh, five years or so!) without recompiling the kernel, so YMMV over in Pi-land too.
      - jandrese 3y ago
        Using a Pi as an access point with Hostapd has also been buggy and crashy for years now. There have been multiple driver updates that just seem to make it worse.
    - reassembled 3y ago
      I’ve been doing development on a Rock 5B and it’s really powerful for a ~$200 SBC. I’ve been using as my aarch64 CI machine and test system as my company starts to add ARM support to our software stack. Also, OBS runs great on it, although it’s not taking advantage of the on-board MPP media accelerator (H.264/265 and other codecs). Apparently GStreamer has support for it though and some folks have experimental FFMPEG forks adding support.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    I am not usually a fan of recommending youtube videos for people seeking information, but the goto I use for keeping up with SBCs competitive to Pi is the 'explaining computers' channel. It is oriented towards the lower end of audience sophistication but gives a quick breakdown of the features along with practical uses and actual setup and configuration of boards instead of just a rundown of specs.
- rcxdude 3y ago
  This is exactly it, and I find it surprising no-one else seems to realise how much good software support makes an offering incredibly attractive compared to the alternatives.
t43562 3y ago
No, I think their ability to offer anything comes from the use of hardware that is already "old" and made in great numbers. Then there's no chance of them getting stuck with a chip that disappears as some small RISCV company decides to stop producing it or that at best becomes a total dead end. Offering RISC-V isn't a benefit to anyone - who really cares? I would guess a tiny number of people. Only if the performance is amazing will it matter. If that performance isn't accessible via software then bad luck too. ARM is not likely to have much trouble keeping up. To beat RPi someone would probably have to accept very marginal returns - I doubt that RPi Ltd is raking in silly amounts of money. It started from a charitable foundation and has to be barely profitable but I think it has no competitors because its situation is unattractive.
gizajob 3y ago
I think given they’ve been so allied to Broadcom and the ARM culture in Cambridge since the start, RISCV is never going to happen. Other companies will make RISCV Pi alternatives in the same format, but the RPi Foundation won’t go there.
girvo 3y ago
Until one of the competitors catches up to RPi's software support and stability and community, they have nothing to be fearful of. Not yet anyway. The RPi shortage led me (and my coworkers) to examining the field of competitors, and all of them were buggier, less stable and badly documented in comparison, sadly. Perhaps that's changed since?

entropicdrifter 3y ago

Not the person you asked, but I have opinions: It'd depend entirely on the level of support a competitor offers, right? I mean that's why RPi is still so popular despite there having been a number of ARM competitors offering more power per dollar for like a decade now. The strong software support led to a strong community/overall ecosystem, which has led to a strong install base, which further improved the community and ecosystem. It's a combination of first mover advantage with continued strong software support that keeps them so prominent as-is. I don't see why a different ISA would fundamentally change that formula.

runlaszlorun 3y ago
Out of curiosity, who are the competitors who are competitive in power per dollar? I don’t follow the space closely but the times I’ve checked out other offerings, they’re not competitive in price/$ or it won’t have wifi or other features to be comparable. I actually started looking at older used desktops- which are fine for some uses and not so much for others.
- hrrsn 3y ago
  Check out some of the RK3588-based SBCs. The Orange Pi 5 Plus is a fantastic alternative to the Raspberry Pi 5 if you're okay with a bit of fiddling as mainline kernel support is still a work in progress.
  - wpm 3y ago
    I just got a Pi Zero 2 W and it seems like I won't be able to connect it to a WPA3 WiFi network (standard's only been out, oh, five years or so!) without recompiling the kernel, so YMMV over in Pi-land too.
    - jandrese 3y ago
      Using a Pi as an access point with Hostapd has also been buggy and crashy for years now. There have been multiple driver updates that just seem to make it worse.
  - reassembled 3y ago
    I’ve been doing development on a Rock 5B and it’s really powerful for a ~$200 SBC. I’ve been using as my aarch64 CI machine and test system as my company starts to add ARM support to our software stack. Also, OBS runs great on it, although it’s not taking advantage of the on-board MPP media accelerator (H.264/265 and other codecs). Apparently GStreamer has support for it though and some folks have experimental FFMPEG forks adding support.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  I am not usually a fan of recommending youtube videos for people seeking information, but the goto I use for keeping up with SBCs competitive to Pi is the 'explaining computers' channel. It is oriented towards the lower end of audience sophistication but gives a quick breakdown of the features along with practical uses and actual setup and configuration of boards instead of just a rundown of specs.
rcxdude 3y ago
This is exactly it, and I find it surprising no-one else seems to realise how much good software support makes an offering incredibly attractive compared to the alternatives.

t43562 3y ago

No, I think their ability to offer anything comes from the use of hardware that is already "old" and made in great numbers. Then there's no chance of them getting stuck with a chip that disappears as some small RISCV company decides to stop producing it or that at best becomes a total dead end. Offering RISC-V isn't a benefit to anyone - who really cares? I would guess a tiny number of people. Only if the performance is amazing will it matter. If that performance isn't accessible via software then bad luck too. ARM is not likely to have much trouble keeping up. To beat RPi someone would probably have to accept very marginal returns - I doubt that RPi Ltd is raking in silly amounts of money. It started from a charitable foundation and has to be barely profitable but I think it has no competitors because its situation is unattractive.

gizajob 3y ago

I think given they’ve been so allied to Broadcom and the ARM culture in Cambridge since the start, RISCV is never going to happen. Other companies will make RISCV Pi alternatives in the same format, but the RPi Foundation won’t go there.

girvo 3y ago

Until one of the competitors catches up to RPi's software support and stability and community, they have nothing to be fearful of. Not yet anyway. The RPi shortage led me (and my coworkers) to examining the field of competitors, and all of them were buggier, less stable and badly documented in comparison, sadly. Perhaps that's changed since?