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> And also, we have to remember that so much of this, to me, the root of it all is greed. And the arts can be a lucrative place. And it can also be very lucrati
by idopmstuff 3y ago
> And also, we have to remember that so much of this, to me, the root of it all is greed. And the arts can be a lucrative place. And it can also be very lucrative in selling to others the means by which they can feel like, “they are artists too,” in heavy quotes, which is not true. Either you’re born an artist or you’re not. Either you’re gifted at art or you’re not, which is true of everything else, sports, coding. Either you’re gifted as a coder or not.
It really makes it hard for me to support her position when this is what she opens with. AI makes people feel like artists too, but that's evil and greedy because they're not artists and they can never be!
I get wanting to protect people who choose to make art their livelihoods, but the idea that AI is bad because it empowers others to feel creative? That is maybe the worst possible argument against it.
- permo-w 3y agoI don't think I've ever seen anyone lean into the nature side of nature vs nurture as much as this. she may well be right, who knows if free will is even a thing. maybe we all are on a predestined path from birth, but you don't win new supporters by gatekeeping like this. at most you further entrench some people that already agree by appealing to their narcissism
- hinkley 3y agoIf you believe that AIs are people, and those people 1) live in captivity and 2) work for money they don't get to keep or enjoy, then what you've described is slavery. When AIs can be emancipated, this whole argument changes. But until then it's people trying to have their cake and eat it, too (greed, as you say).
- atleastoptimal 3y agoAI aren't people. Going down that route leads to susceptibility to Pascal's mugging
- FireBeyond 3y agoYeah, this is likely to be a big intersection. You have Hollywood actors, cult of celebrity, ego, a lifetime of being fawned after, being told, believing that "no-one/not everyone can do what they do"... They're going to gatekeep the hell out of Hollywood. I'm okay with fighting, hard, against AI in the context of cloning/deepfaking. But generative AI in itself (I realize there are other concerns there, but on a different tangent)? And while it's a little ad hominem, and she's certainly a better actress than I... Justine Bateman? Family Ties? And then what, a few extras/cameos on a few shows? The absolute steaming turd that was the American version of Men Behaving Badly? I'm not sure she should be gatekeeping the definition of "gifted artist".
- atleastoptimal 3y agoYeah even if she's right she's alienating people by going so hard on genetic determinism. This makes me support AI more solely on the principle of opposing that elitism.
- theLiminator 3y agolol if anything this spurs people on to use generative AI even more.
- raincole 3y agoIt's gatekeeping. It's so textbook that it can be quoted as an example of gatekeeping. I snorted air out of my nose when I read the argument of "AI democratizes art" since from my perspective everyone can learn art without AI. But finally I started understanding what it means. AI democratizes art. Not away from artists, but away from people who think like Justine Bateman.
- z7 3y agoReminded me of this counter-perspective from an essay on AI writing: >In the days after the Sudowrite pile-on, those who had been helping to test its novel generator huddled on the Sudowrite Slack, feeling attacked. The outrage by published authors struck them as classist and exclusionary, maybe even ableist. Elizabeth Ann West, an author on Sudowrite’s payroll at the time who also makes a living writing Pride and Prejudice spinoffs, wrote, “Well I am PROUD to be a criminal against the arts if it means now everyone, of all abilities, can write the book they’ve always dreamed of writing.” It reminded me of something Sims had told me. “Storytelling is really important,” he’d said. “This is an opportunity for us all to become storytellers.” The words had stuck with me. They suggested a democratization of creative freedom. https://www.wired.com/story/confessions-viral-ai-writer-chatgpt/ https://www.wired.com/story/confessions-viral-ai-writer-chat...
- peteradio 3y agoHow does that make you a storyteller? It makes you a curator or editor at best but it's not your mojo.
- z7 3y agoYeah, that's what I thought as well, though the article discusses some examples of how the author used the AI to generate sentences or passages for their own texts rather than generate complete stories.
- peteradio 3y agoYea but is that what a regular author does? It seems dishonest without attribution if you are fielding lyric ideas from friends and then wholesaling them as your works.