4 ms·

> "Either you’re born an artist or you’re not. Either you’re gifted at art or you’re not, which is true of everything else, sports, coding. Either you’re gifted

> "Either you’re born an artist or you’re not. Either you’re gifted at art or you’re not, which is true of everything else, sports, coding. Either you’re gifted as a coder or not." And I'm out. She lost me. This is nonsense. The audience decides what is "art" is. If something created by an AI moves an audience, or makes it think, it's art. And all of these things are skills that can be developed. They are not inborn. Yikes. What a terrible representative to put forward.

tiahura 3y ago
They’re literally a guild. Their job is to hoard privilege by gatekeeping. In no way do they have the public’s interests at heart.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
pclmulqdq 3y ago
This quote cannot be further from the truth. Nobody emerges from the womb as a great artist, football player, or software engineer. Everyone sucks at everything as a baby. It's all about practice and dedication. If anything, this attitude shows that modern Hollywood "actors" are replaceable if they think that they were born with their craft.
- hondo77 3y ago
  You clearly have never known a great athlete. They're mostly born. Sure, it takes a lot of work to be great but if you aren't born with it, no amount of work and dedication is going to make you great.
  - moron4hire 3y ago
    I don't know, I think there are a lot of professional athletes that have something in their background that makes them the under dog, but through shear perseverance they have made it to the top. Tom Dolan swam in the Olympics despite having pretty bad asthma. Muggsy Bouges played in the NBA and was only 5'3". Bethany Hamilton still surfed competitively after losing an arm to a shark.
    - mistrial9 3y ago
      there is a difference between being "fabulous" and actually being competitive.
    - duderific 3y ago
      I think you are kind of making the point rather than refuting it. Muggsy Bogues at 5'3" could dunk a basketball. As a person who is not much taller than that, I can tell you that no amount of dedication and hard work would allow me to dunk a basketball. If Muggsy Bogues was born with an average athletic ability, rather than what he was born with, he probably wouldn't have been able to make his high school team.
      - pclmulqdq 3y ago
        If you had spent as many hours as him in the gym when you were in your teens and twenties, I'm sure you would be able to dunk a basketball. If you have time to spend 10,000 hours in the gym from this point on, you may still be able to do it.
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    I have actually met a few professional athletes. Many people are born without the qualities (height, build) to professionally play anything, that's true. However, those qualities confer a relatively small edge in most sports compared to the things you can train: strength and skill. The reason most professionals are physical freaks is because nobody but those people can get that edge, and professional sports is about finding every edge you can get.
  - raincole 3y ago
    But art is almost the opposite of professional sports so it might not be a good analogy. Art (at least since impressionism) is mostly about subjective feelings. Professional sports are about pre-set rules and objectives. You are either a faster or a slower running than Bolt. There is little to no interpretation. Even if your underdog performance against Bolt moved the audience, you still lost the race.
  - derivagral 3y ago
    Having personally known an athlete competing for Olympics (personal circumstances got in the way), he would constantly denigrate his genetics while still performing at the highest level worldwide. The drive and work ethic was very high, and that can translate to other fields.
- jowea 3y ago
  I don't think the quote says that you're born great, just born gifted. You believe everyone on the street could be a great artist, football player, or software engineer. and with the same amount of effort?
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    Not necessarily with exactly the same amount of effort for things that have a physical component, but yes. I think that's true of software engineers, for example.
    - webmaven 3y ago
      There are some mental gifts that are innate, like how easily you are able to pick up new syntax and semantics (which correlates with how well you are able to learn new spoken languages). Many people just aren't able to become fluent in new languages as adults and are stuck "translating" in their head, and this seems to apply to programming languages as well. People also differ in how much context they are able to hold in their working memory (which affects debugging more than coding per-se, but still). While these and other aspects of human cognition are somewhat malleable and subject to improvement through practice, there are limits, and some folks just aren't going to ever be good software engineers, no matter how hard they try.
peferron 3y ago
I opened the article to make sure that quote wasn't out of context (nothing against you—it just happens often) but it's actually even worse: > [AI can make people] feel like, “they are artists too,” in heavy quotes, which is not true. > Many people, they’d like to imply that they are gifted at coding by giving the generative AI a solution to that. In her view, if you create great art, a great video game, a great piece of software—or really anything at all I suppose—with the help of AI then you're a fraud and you should feel bad. I guess a bunch of people had similar thoughts when artists (yes, artists) started making music with computers without even knowing how to read sheet music or play a musical instrument, but look at all the creativity that came out of that.
tpmx 3y ago
It's funny, because unlike her brother Jason, she doesn't really have it.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  I have lived a life of anger over the world being robbed of the "gifted artistry" of her and Rob Schneider being canceled on the American version of Men Behaving Badly.
  - tpmx 3y ago
    Old tv show eps that people have stopped caring about tend to be available on Youtube. That's the case for this one. Amazing stuff.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
SpaceManNabs 3y ago
I DESPISE THAT QUOTE. Nobody is born anything. Nobody is born a slave, a criminal, a prodigy, a prophet, an athlete, an intellectual, an iconoclast, etc.. Every moment a person is born is an opportunity for us to be surpassed or ashamed. What a disgusting gatekeeping statement. The only thing people are born anything as are maybe royalty, which is an entirely different disgusting enterprise. Maybe I am channeling too much OnePiece 1096.
- tpmx 3y ago
  You should read up on genes vs environment vs outcome. Make sure to include twin studies in your research.
  - SpaceManNabs 3y ago
    I have. Identical twins separated at birth can have vastly separate outcomes. Nurture >>> nature pretty definitively. Next thing I notice, someone is gonna post a gwern style response on IQ ridiculousness.
    - tpmx 3y ago
      I'm bailing out of this discussion right now. Sorry. I just don't have this energy/time to spare at the moment.
      - SpaceManNabs 3y ago
        No need to apologize. I do a terrible job at ignoring IQ rationalists. Guess it balances out because IQ rationalists do a great job ignoring well-substantiated data from biologists. How cursed it must to be so growth oriented with a fixed mindset.
        tpmx 3y ago
        As do I, but with mythicists.
hinkley 3y ago
One could argue that Justine Bateman peaked around 18. I'm not saying that to be catty, I'm saying that to set the context. If the best part of your life came before your 21st birthday, then you have mostly stuck to things that you tried, did pretty well at, and just fostered that natural 'talent' (predisposition). If your friends are the same, then you might believe that nobody ever got good at anything by sheer force of will - which is itself a talent that some learn along the way. It's the hare telling us that the tortoise lost the race, only because they have been napping. There are things in my life I was instantly good at. There are ones where I had to work my ass off. I get equal praise for both and it galls me because people assume that both skillsets required the same effort. One set was a pursuit and the other was a mission. An ordeal. Wisdom has accumulated from both, but only one of them made me a better person. Jason didn't peak until well into his 30's. If they don't argue about this it's because Jason realizes that winning that argument will just hurt his older sister more than letting her say stupid shit (when you convince someone their whole life is a lie, it doesn't often go well).

tiahura 3y ago

They’re literally a guild. Their job is to hoard privilege by gatekeeping. In no way do they have the public’s interests at heart.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

pclmulqdq 3y ago

This quote cannot be further from the truth. Nobody emerges from the womb as a great artist, football player, or software engineer. Everyone sucks at everything as a baby. It's all about practice and dedication. If anything, this attitude shows that modern Hollywood "actors" are replaceable if they think that they were born with their craft.

hondo77 3y ago
You clearly have never known a great athlete. They're mostly born. Sure, it takes a lot of work to be great but if you aren't born with it, no amount of work and dedication is going to make you great.
- moron4hire 3y ago
  I don't know, I think there are a lot of professional athletes that have something in their background that makes them the under dog, but through shear perseverance they have made it to the top. Tom Dolan swam in the Olympics despite having pretty bad asthma. Muggsy Bouges played in the NBA and was only 5'3". Bethany Hamilton still surfed competitively after losing an arm to a shark.
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    there is a difference between being "fabulous" and actually being competitive.
  - duderific 3y ago
    I think you are kind of making the point rather than refuting it. Muggsy Bogues at 5'3" could dunk a basketball. As a person who is not much taller than that, I can tell you that no amount of dedication and hard work would allow me to dunk a basketball. If Muggsy Bogues was born with an average athletic ability, rather than what he was born with, he probably wouldn't have been able to make his high school team.
    - pclmulqdq 3y ago
      If you had spent as many hours as him in the gym when you were in your teens and twenties, I'm sure you would be able to dunk a basketball. If you have time to spend 10,000 hours in the gym from this point on, you may still be able to do it.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  I have actually met a few professional athletes. Many people are born without the qualities (height, build) to professionally play anything, that's true. However, those qualities confer a relatively small edge in most sports compared to the things you can train: strength and skill. The reason most professionals are physical freaks is because nobody but those people can get that edge, and professional sports is about finding every edge you can get.
- raincole 3y ago
  But art is almost the opposite of professional sports so it might not be a good analogy. Art (at least since impressionism) is mostly about subjective feelings. Professional sports are about pre-set rules and objectives. You are either a faster or a slower running than Bolt. There is little to no interpretation. Even if your underdog performance against Bolt moved the audience, you still lost the race.
- derivagral 3y ago
  Having personally known an athlete competing for Olympics (personal circumstances got in the way), he would constantly denigrate his genetics while still performing at the highest level worldwide. The drive and work ethic was very high, and that can translate to other fields.
jowea 3y ago
I don't think the quote says that you're born great, just born gifted. You believe everyone on the street could be a great artist, football player, or software engineer. and with the same amount of effort?
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  Not necessarily with exactly the same amount of effort for things that have a physical component, but yes. I think that's true of software engineers, for example.
  - webmaven 3y ago
    There are some mental gifts that are innate, like how easily you are able to pick up new syntax and semantics (which correlates with how well you are able to learn new spoken languages). Many people just aren't able to become fluent in new languages as adults and are stuck "translating" in their head, and this seems to apply to programming languages as well. People also differ in how much context they are able to hold in their working memory (which affects debugging more than coding per-se, but still). While these and other aspects of human cognition are somewhat malleable and subject to improvement through practice, there are limits, and some folks just aren't going to ever be good software engineers, no matter how hard they try.

peferron 3y ago

I opened the article to make sure that quote wasn't out of context (nothing against you—it just happens often) but it's actually even worse: > [AI can make people] feel like, “they are artists too,” in heavy quotes, which is not true. > Many people, they’d like to imply that they are gifted at coding by giving the generative AI a solution to that. In her view, if you create great art, a great video game, a great piece of software—or really anything at all I suppose—with the help of AI then you're a fraud and you should feel bad. I guess a bunch of people had similar thoughts when artists (yes, artists) started making music with computers without even knowing how to read sheet music or play a musical instrument, but look at all the creativity that came out of that.

tpmx 3y ago

It's funny, because unlike her brother Jason, she doesn't really have it.

FireBeyond 3y ago
I have lived a life of anger over the world being robbed of the "gifted artistry" of her and Rob Schneider being canceled on the American version of Men Behaving Badly.
- tpmx 3y ago
  Old tv show eps that people have stopped caring about tend to be available on Youtube. That's the case for this one. Amazing stuff.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

SpaceManNabs 3y ago

I DESPISE THAT QUOTE. Nobody is born anything. Nobody is born a slave, a criminal, a prodigy, a prophet, an athlete, an intellectual, an iconoclast, etc.. Every moment a person is born is an opportunity for us to be surpassed or ashamed. What a disgusting gatekeeping statement. The only thing people are born anything as are maybe royalty, which is an entirely different disgusting enterprise. Maybe I am channeling too much OnePiece 1096.

tpmx 3y ago
You should read up on genes vs environment vs outcome. Make sure to include twin studies in your research.
- SpaceManNabs 3y ago
  I have. Identical twins separated at birth can have vastly separate outcomes. Nurture >>> nature pretty definitively. Next thing I notice, someone is gonna post a gwern style response on IQ ridiculousness.
  - tpmx 3y ago
    I'm bailing out of this discussion right now. Sorry. I just don't have this energy/time to spare at the moment.
    - SpaceManNabs 3y ago
      No need to apologize. I do a terrible job at ignoring IQ rationalists. Guess it balances out because IQ rationalists do a great job ignoring well-substantiated data from biologists. How cursed it must to be so growth oriented with a fixed mindset.
      - tpmx 3y ago
        As do I, but with mythicists.

hinkley 3y ago

One could argue that Justine Bateman peaked around 18. I'm not saying that to be catty, I'm saying that to set the context. If the best part of your life came before your 21st birthday, then you have mostly stuck to things that you tried, did pretty well at, and just fostered that natural 'talent' (predisposition). If your friends are the same, then you might believe that nobody ever got good at anything by sheer force of will - which is itself a talent that some learn along the way. It's the hare telling us that the tortoise lost the race, only because they have been napping. There are things in my life I was instantly good at. There are ones where I had to work my ass off. I get equal praise for both and it galls me because people assume that both skillsets required the same effort. One set was a pursuit and the other was a mission. An ordeal. Wisdom has accumulated from both, but only one of them made me a better person. Jason didn't peak until well into his 30's. If they don't argue about this it's because Jason realizes that winning that argument will just hurt his older sister more than letting her say stupid shit (when you convince someone their whole life is a lie, it doesn't often go well).