5 ms·

I think there's a good case for an OS coming with a good suite of pre-installed apps, like a decent calendar, mail client, notes, todo, etc. The same way that m

I think there's a good case for an OS coming with a good suite of pre-installed apps, like a decent calendar, mail client, notes, todo, etc. The same way that macOS has very nice pre-installed apps that are used by a significant portion of their customers (the Apple notes app is really good, and I see plenty of people using Apple mail, calendar, etc). The problem is that Microsoft's implementations suck. Apple's are thoroughly mediocre and that's ok, people who want more can easily get more, but Microsoft is too afraid of cannibalising Outlook and what not to really commit to it. The TV/movies apps though are bordering on bloatware territory, and that's on both macOS and Win11.

wannacboatmovie 3y ago
> The problem is that Microsoft's implementations suck. Apple's are thoroughly mediocre and that's ok Why is that ok? Apple's bundled apps are absolute trash and ironically you are prohibited from dragging them thither. Apple Maps desktop app is garbage and no one uses it when you can pop open Google Maps in a browser. Maybe if I wanted a route to drive me into a lake I'd consider opening it. Music is a terrible excuse for an iTunes replacement. These bundled applications just take up valuable space on their perpetually undersized SSDs.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  I like Apple's bundled apps so much that I'd use most of them on other platforms, too, if that were an option. > Apple Maps desktop app is garbage and no one uses it when you can pop open Google Maps in a browser. I use it. > Music is a terrible excuse for an iTunes replacement. OK, fair.
- iAMkenough 3y ago
  I use that Apple Maps desktop app and get everything I need from it. Loads much quicker for me, so I prefer it when I'm doing quick address lookups.
  - wannacboatmovie 3y ago
    On a 96-core Mac Pro maybe. Apple Maps takes ~4 sec to open whereas Google Maps takes < 1 sec to render in the browser so no it isn't faster.
    - hotnfresh 3y ago
      ~2s from hitting "enter" to launch it, to having the map rendered, on my m1 air. I hadn't opened it in a while, so I doubt it was cached. Also this thing's connected to a distant VPN, which may have slowed the network portion down. The app itself was up and had its window drawn in less than a second. 4s to render a new Google Maps tab, same machine. (edit: though that probably had a lot of cache-misses, because I almost never use Google Maps—it's likely faster if you use it a lot)
    - superb_dev 3y ago
      I think you just got unlucky? Just tested on my M2 Air, on battery with all my usual apps open in the background, it takes less than a second to open. I've never even used the Apple Maps app on my Mac (google maps opens in about the same time)
    - iAMkenough 3y ago
      I've got it the other way around. 1 sec to open and load Apple Maps vs ~4 secs to open a browser and load Google Maps. For me, Apple Maps makes more sense and gets the job done well.
- wlesieutre 3y ago
  I like Apple Maps, pan/zoom on a trackpad feel snappy like it does on mobile, and it doesn't have all the advertising that Google Maps does. My biggest problem with it is the lethargic rollout of Look Around in the US, so I still use Google for Street View.
- internet2000 3y ago
  I love the Apple Maps app on Mac OS. As other posters have said it’s the only thing that feels natural to use with the Mac trackpads. Everything else feels like you’re not manipulating the map directly.
starik36 3y ago
> The problem is that Microsoft's implementations suck I switched to Windows Mail and Calendar apps from Outlook a long time ago. They work fine. Both start up instantly. Which cannot be said for Outlook. Occasionally, I'll jump into Outlook to setup some complicated filtering rule, but that's about it. Sadly, they are getting rid of Mail and Calendar in 2024 and replacing them with Outlook.
- recursive 3y ago
  Text zooming in windows mail is comically bad. When you zoom in, it does increase the font size, but it doesn't reflow text. This means if you double the zoom, now you have a horizontal scrollbar twice as wide as your viewport. This is not a particularly unique problem with Windows Mail. It's like this all over.
  - starik36 3y ago
    You are so right. I subconsciously trained myself to stop zooming in and completely forgot that it even existed.
jwells89 3y ago
A big part of what makes the more commonly used of the apps bundled with macOS popular is how generic they are. Mail, Calendar, and Contacts don’t really push users to use iCloud for example… they’re just decent IMAP/CalDAV/CardDAV clients. Notes adds a few iCloud specific features but works well with IMAP accounts too. With Microsoft becoming thoroughly centered around services and monetization, they’re increasingly allergic to apps like that. If it’s not actively pushing MS services or showing ads to users they have a hard time justifying spending resources on it.
__jonas 3y ago
> The problem is that Microsoft's implementations suck. Apple's are thoroughly mediocre and that's ok, people who want more can easily get more, but Microsoft is too afraid of cannibalising Outlook and what not to really commit to it. I find it shocking how bad Microsoft is at this. I had my dad, who isn't the most tech literate person, set up on the Windows built-in mail client for a while, which I thought worked pretty okay, a decent default solution. At some point a banner appeared in the App, saying that it was being deprecated in favor of "The New Outlook". I thought okay, I am personally using Outlook for work on my Mac because of an IT policy, and I found it to be an alright Email client there, and it's one of Microsofts flagship office programs, surely it's gonna be a good experience on Windows right? It was a complete nightmare, immediately during setup it turned out that "The New Outlook" doesn't support regular IMAP/SMTP Email setups, only account login via outlook.com or google mail (I assume this changed now), so I had to switch him to whatever the "old" outlook is, an extraordinarily convoluted looking piece of software with comically bad user experience, nothing like the Mac version. I genuinely felt bad putting my Dad through this, and it's wild to me that they manage to deliver a so much worse experience on their own platform than on Mac.
- miohtama 3y ago
  Microsoft peaked at Windows XP. Subjective / objective downhill since then. No idea why… maybe because selling operating systems is dying business?
  - DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
    In hindsight, I think Windows 7's hayday - and Windows 10's - are certainly up-there with Windows XP. Though remember XP received a lot of (well-deserved, IMO) flack for its Fischer-Price look, but at least it was (somewhat) customizable, before things got increasingly locked-down and restricted since Vista.
    - justsomehnguy 3y ago
      Sorry, but I don't buy it. I was there and there were 3 apps what I used from WinXP and Win7 (in any meaningful amount, Charmap and the like, used once in a full moon doesn't count): Notepad, Calc, Paint. Everything else were 3rd party or updates. In no particular order: IrfanView, ACDSee MPC/VLC (and K-Lite ofc) ImgBurn/Nero/UltraISO Office Adobe Reader/Whatever else I forgot Corel PhotoPaint 3 (lol, yeah, till I moved to 64-bit Vista), Paint.net, PhotoShop, GIMP WinAMP, AIMP, Foobar2k Thunderbird, Sylpheed, The Bat Edit: Miranda, Skype...
baz00 3y ago
On the basis you have to pay for iCloud anyway if you want anything usable storage or service wise and Pages and Numbers are garbage, I would consider the default "paid" O365 apps to be excellent. 1Tb storage, outlook, excel and word for £5 a month approx. Bargain. Chuck another £2 in and my kids and mother all get O365 and 1TB each too. New outlook is pretty good too (finally).

wannacboatmovie 3y ago

> The problem is that Microsoft's implementations suck. Apple's are thoroughly mediocre and that's ok Why is that ok? Apple's bundled apps are absolute trash and ironically you are prohibited from dragging them thither. Apple Maps desktop app is garbage and no one uses it when you can pop open Google Maps in a browser. Maybe if I wanted a route to drive me into a lake I'd consider opening it. Music is a terrible excuse for an iTunes replacement. These bundled applications just take up valuable space on their perpetually undersized SSDs.

hotnfresh 3y ago
I like Apple's bundled apps so much that I'd use most of them on other platforms, too, if that were an option. > Apple Maps desktop app is garbage and no one uses it when you can pop open Google Maps in a browser. I use it. > Music is a terrible excuse for an iTunes replacement. OK, fair.
iAMkenough 3y ago
I use that Apple Maps desktop app and get everything I need from it. Loads much quicker for me, so I prefer it when I'm doing quick address lookups.
- wannacboatmovie 3y ago
  On a 96-core Mac Pro maybe. Apple Maps takes ~4 sec to open whereas Google Maps takes < 1 sec to render in the browser so no it isn't faster.
  - hotnfresh 3y ago
    ~2s from hitting "enter" to launch it, to having the map rendered, on my m1 air. I hadn't opened it in a while, so I doubt it was cached. Also this thing's connected to a distant VPN, which may have slowed the network portion down. The app itself was up and had its window drawn in less than a second. 4s to render a new Google Maps tab, same machine. (edit: though that probably had a lot of cache-misses, because I almost never use Google Maps—it's likely faster if you use it a lot)
  - superb_dev 3y ago
    I think you just got unlucky? Just tested on my M2 Air, on battery with all my usual apps open in the background, it takes less than a second to open. I've never even used the Apple Maps app on my Mac (google maps opens in about the same time)
  - iAMkenough 3y ago
    I've got it the other way around. 1 sec to open and load Apple Maps vs ~4 secs to open a browser and load Google Maps. For me, Apple Maps makes more sense and gets the job done well.
wlesieutre 3y ago
I like Apple Maps, pan/zoom on a trackpad feel snappy like it does on mobile, and it doesn't have all the advertising that Google Maps does. My biggest problem with it is the lethargic rollout of Look Around in the US, so I still use Google for Street View.
internet2000 3y ago
I love the Apple Maps app on Mac OS. As other posters have said it’s the only thing that feels natural to use with the Mac trackpads. Everything else feels like you’re not manipulating the map directly.

starik36 3y ago

> The problem is that Microsoft's implementations suck I switched to Windows Mail and Calendar apps from Outlook a long time ago. They work fine. Both start up instantly. Which cannot be said for Outlook. Occasionally, I'll jump into Outlook to setup some complicated filtering rule, but that's about it. Sadly, they are getting rid of Mail and Calendar in 2024 and replacing them with Outlook.

recursive 3y ago
Text zooming in windows mail is comically bad. When you zoom in, it does increase the font size, but it doesn't reflow text. This means if you double the zoom, now you have a horizontal scrollbar twice as wide as your viewport. This is not a particularly unique problem with Windows Mail. It's like this all over.
- starik36 3y ago
  You are so right. I subconsciously trained myself to stop zooming in and completely forgot that it even existed.

jwells89 3y ago

A big part of what makes the more commonly used of the apps bundled with macOS popular is how generic they are. Mail, Calendar, and Contacts don’t really push users to use iCloud for example… they’re just decent IMAP/CalDAV/CardDAV clients. Notes adds a few iCloud specific features but works well with IMAP accounts too. With Microsoft becoming thoroughly centered around services and monetization, they’re increasingly allergic to apps like that. If it’s not actively pushing MS services or showing ads to users they have a hard time justifying spending resources on it.

__jonas 3y ago

> The problem is that Microsoft's implementations suck. Apple's are thoroughly mediocre and that's ok, people who want more can easily get more, but Microsoft is too afraid of cannibalising Outlook and what not to really commit to it. I find it shocking how bad Microsoft is at this. I had my dad, who isn't the most tech literate person, set up on the Windows built-in mail client for a while, which I thought worked pretty okay, a decent default solution. At some point a banner appeared in the App, saying that it was being deprecated in favor of "The New Outlook". I thought okay, I am personally using Outlook for work on my Mac because of an IT policy, and I found it to be an alright Email client there, and it's one of Microsofts flagship office programs, surely it's gonna be a good experience on Windows right? It was a complete nightmare, immediately during setup it turned out that "The New Outlook" doesn't support regular IMAP/SMTP Email setups, only account login via outlook.com or google mail (I assume this changed now), so I had to switch him to whatever the "old" outlook is, an extraordinarily convoluted looking piece of software with comically bad user experience, nothing like the Mac version. I genuinely felt bad putting my Dad through this, and it's wild to me that they manage to deliver a so much worse experience on their own platform than on Mac.

miohtama 3y ago
Microsoft peaked at Windows XP. Subjective / objective downhill since then. No idea why… maybe because selling operating systems is dying business?
- DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
  In hindsight, I think Windows 7's hayday - and Windows 10's - are certainly up-there with Windows XP. Though remember XP received a lot of (well-deserved, IMO) flack for its Fischer-Price look, but at least it was (somewhat) customizable, before things got increasingly locked-down and restricted since Vista.
  - justsomehnguy 3y ago
    Sorry, but I don't buy it. I was there and there were 3 apps what I used from WinXP and Win7 (in any meaningful amount, Charmap and the like, used once in a full moon doesn't count): Notepad, Calc, Paint. Everything else were 3rd party or updates. In no particular order: IrfanView, ACDSee MPC/VLC (and K-Lite ofc) ImgBurn/Nero/UltraISO Office Adobe Reader/Whatever else I forgot Corel PhotoPaint 3 (lol, yeah, till I moved to 64-bit Vista), Paint.net, PhotoShop, GIMP WinAMP, AIMP, Foobar2k Thunderbird, Sylpheed, The Bat Edit: Miranda, Skype...

baz00 3y ago

On the basis you have to pay for iCloud anyway if you want anything usable storage or service wise and Pages and Numbers are garbage, I would consider the default "paid" O365 apps to be excellent. 1Tb storage, outlook, excel and word for £5 a month approx. Bargain. Chuck another £2 in and my kids and mother all get O365 and 1TB each too. New outlook is pretty good too (finally).