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while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly mor

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
supriyo-biswas 3y ago
Parent is referring to the fact that the technical acumen of this kind of manager is usually far less than the engineers who are working under them, which leads to worse outcomes for the engineers in question (but is a fine career choice and a rational decision for the now manager).
andy99 3y ago
There's an old saying If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?
- freeopinion 3y ago
  Better?: If you're so smart, why aren't you happy?
  - andy99 3y ago
    I agree it's better - I think the context is a response to people complaining about all the "dumber" people that have it better than them
JrProgrammer 3y ago
For a lot of people, work happiness is also a big factor, as it should. You’re spending at least 1/3rd of your whole day at your work. Choosing a specific path does not make you smarter per definition
ravenstine 3y ago
Not all smart people have a desire to be parasites that are paid several times more than they're worth by a dysfunctional system.
- pb7 3y ago
  Who decides what they’re worth?
  - throwaway092323 3y ago
    > Who decides what they’re worth? The poster above you; they're the one who made an implicit claim about the value of software developers' work. You're welcome to disagree. Do you think everyone is paid fairly?
    - pb7 3y ago
      They’re wrong. You’re worth what you can fetch. If you feel that it’s unfair, find a new bidder and make it fair.
      - throwaway092323 3y ago
        Does that logic still apply to teachers? How about public defenders? Food bank staff? Punishing people for believing in their work is called "exploitation".
        onion2k 3y ago
        Does that logic still apply to teachers? How about public defenders? Food bank staff? Yes. Personally, I think they're all underpaid. But I don't set their wages. Society does that by agreeing a level of tax people are happy with, and then spending that money on public employee's wages. Collectively society has agreed to pay those people as little as possible. That's the important thing in any wage negotiation - you have to understand where the money is coming from, because ultimately that's who gets to decide the maximum limit of one side of the bargaining process. So in the case of teachers you have an individual teacher's pay being an agreement between that person and how much Joe Random wants to pay in tax. Teachers are always going to lose out on that one. The answer is either to educate the public about the value of public wealth (eg why higher taxes are actually better for society in many ways), or to privatise the education system. Neither works well on a national level.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
> How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Being smart and how much you make aren't related. There are researchers working at universities in Europe being paid miserable salaries and yet making incredible discoveries (like medical ones) and these are incredibly smart people. Meanwhile there are people with only a few neurons connecting raking in millions on "only fans". And, no, the later aren't smarter than the former.
- KeplerBoy 3y ago
  That's kind of the European dream. You work at uni, have fun pursuing your reasearch and earn enough money to rent a somewhat nice flat in the city. What else could anyone want? Heck, today i saw Sepp Hochreiter sitting in the tram on his way to uni. He could do anything in the world, yet he chooses to live the european academic life.
- nocsi 3y ago
  > Being smart and how much you make aren't related. There are researchers working at universities in Europe being paid miserable salaries and yet making incredible discoveries (like medical ones) and these are incredibly smart people. Think about it, who's funding these researchers you're celebrating? I'd argue being smart is linked to money. You don't need to spend all your time exploiting the markets if you're smart, but just enough to build a resource pool that can enable your endeavors. People work with what they got - in your latter example, they're selling their body. If academics were functionally smart, then it's a simple task for them to be able to exploit and win against a capitalist market.
rzzzt 3y ago
That's street smart
l33t7332273 3y ago
>How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work I find it deeply troubling that so many people conflate “being smart” with “min-maxing labor and earning”. It reflects the strange belief that the best people are the best capitalists. I take issue with the thesis that money is crystallized virtue where more of one is more of the other.
- mattgreenrocks 3y ago
  Yeah, it's a pretty gross mindset. I suppose it is what people need to believe, however. Good luck with that, I guess?
- throwaway092323 3y ago
  > I find it deeply troubling that so many people conflate “being smart” with “min-maxing labor and earning” And they're veeeery vocal other people trying to get something for nothing.
timacles 3y ago
Life is more complicated than that. There are smart people burdened with a moral compass, which forces them to "do the right thing" which might be pursuing their passion or contributing to society. Then there are smart people who are happen to exploit social structures to get ahead. Those becomes the sociopath CEOs and such. There are also plenty of not particularly smart people who figure out how to get ahead exploiting social structures. Theres also plenty of smart people, whos intelligence is restricted to their area of expertise. Technical knowledge doesnt transfer to strong political skills Doesn't make the smart people who actually have a consciousness to answer to less smart than the rest
- bumby 3y ago
  I know there’s some correlation between certain Big Five personality traits like consciousness and material success, but now I’m wondering which of those traits may also correlate with IQ.
  - hollerith 3y ago
    Openness is probably the one out of the 5 most correlated with IQ.
aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? This is not about smartness, but about willingness for ass-kissing and ability of to play political games. This is not associated with intelligence, but with dark triad traits. Quite some smart people look through all this, but are incapable of changing the situation.
bumby 3y ago
They probably mean “smart” as in “technical acumen” not “cunning”
eikenberry 3y ago
Money isn't a linear curve where $$$==happiness. More money does have a strong correspondence with happiness until you hit a certain level and then it falls off. A case of strongly diminishing returns where other sources of happiness will outweigh the need for more money. Things like liking your job being a big factor.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

supriyo-biswas 3y ago

Parent is referring to the fact that the technical acumen of this kind of manager is usually far less than the engineers who are working under them, which leads to worse outcomes for the engineers in question (but is a fine career choice and a rational decision for the now manager).

andy99 3y ago

There's an old saying If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?

freeopinion 3y ago
Better?: If you're so smart, why aren't you happy?
- andy99 3y ago
  I agree it's better - I think the context is a response to people complaining about all the "dumber" people that have it better than them

JrProgrammer 3y ago

For a lot of people, work happiness is also a big factor, as it should. You’re spending at least 1/3rd of your whole day at your work. Choosing a specific path does not make you smarter per definition

ravenstine 3y ago

Not all smart people have a desire to be parasites that are paid several times more than they're worth by a dysfunctional system.

pb7 3y ago
Who decides what they’re worth?
- throwaway092323 3y ago
  > Who decides what they’re worth? The poster above you; they're the one who made an implicit claim about the value of software developers' work. You're welcome to disagree. Do you think everyone is paid fairly?
  - pb7 3y ago
    They’re wrong. You’re worth what you can fetch. If you feel that it’s unfair, find a new bidder and make it fair.
    - throwaway092323 3y ago
      Does that logic still apply to teachers? How about public defenders? Food bank staff? Punishing people for believing in their work is called "exploitation".
      - onion2k 3y ago
        Does that logic still apply to teachers? How about public defenders? Food bank staff? Yes. Personally, I think they're all underpaid. But I don't set their wages. Society does that by agreeing a level of tax people are happy with, and then spending that money on public employee's wages. Collectively society has agreed to pay those people as little as possible. That's the important thing in any wage negotiation - you have to understand where the money is coming from, because ultimately that's who gets to decide the maximum limit of one side of the bargaining process. So in the case of teachers you have an individual teacher's pay being an agreement between that person and how much Joe Random wants to pay in tax. Teachers are always going to lose out on that one. The answer is either to educate the public about the value of public wealth (eg why higher taxes are actually better for society in many ways), or to privatise the education system. Neither works well on a national level.

TacticalCoder 3y ago

> How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Being smart and how much you make aren't related. There are researchers working at universities in Europe being paid miserable salaries and yet making incredible discoveries (like medical ones) and these are incredibly smart people. Meanwhile there are people with only a few neurons connecting raking in millions on "only fans". And, no, the later aren't smarter than the former.

KeplerBoy 3y ago
That's kind of the European dream. You work at uni, have fun pursuing your reasearch and earn enough money to rent a somewhat nice flat in the city. What else could anyone want? Heck, today i saw Sepp Hochreiter sitting in the tram on his way to uni. He could do anything in the world, yet he chooses to live the european academic life.
nocsi 3y ago
> Being smart and how much you make aren't related. There are researchers working at universities in Europe being paid miserable salaries and yet making incredible discoveries (like medical ones) and these are incredibly smart people. Think about it, who's funding these researchers you're celebrating? I'd argue being smart is linked to money. You don't need to spend all your time exploiting the markets if you're smart, but just enough to build a resource pool that can enable your endeavors. People work with what they got - in your latter example, they're selling their body. If academics were functionally smart, then it's a simple task for them to be able to exploit and win against a capitalist market.

rzzzt 3y ago

That's street smart

l33t7332273 3y ago

>How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work I find it deeply troubling that so many people conflate “being smart” with “min-maxing labor and earning”. It reflects the strange belief that the best people are the best capitalists. I take issue with the thesis that money is crystallized virtue where more of one is more of the other.

mattgreenrocks 3y ago
Yeah, it's a pretty gross mindset. I suppose it is what people need to believe, however. Good luck with that, I guess?
throwaway092323 3y ago
> I find it deeply troubling that so many people conflate “being smart” with “min-maxing labor and earning” And they're veeeery vocal other people trying to get something for nothing.

timacles 3y ago

Life is more complicated than that. There are smart people burdened with a moral compass, which forces them to "do the right thing" which might be pursuing their passion or contributing to society. Then there are smart people who are happen to exploit social structures to get ahead. Those becomes the sociopath CEOs and such. There are also plenty of not particularly smart people who figure out how to get ahead exploiting social structures. Theres also plenty of smart people, whos intelligence is restricted to their area of expertise. Technical knowledge doesnt transfer to strong political skills Doesn't make the smart people who actually have a consciousness to answer to less smart than the rest

bumby 3y ago
I know there’s some correlation between certain Big Five personality traits like consciousness and material success, but now I’m wondering which of those traits may also correlate with IQ.
- hollerith 3y ago
  Openness is probably the one out of the 5 most correlated with IQ.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago

> How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? This is not about smartness, but about willingness for ass-kissing and ability of to play political games. This is not associated with intelligence, but with dark triad traits. Quite some smart people look through all this, but are incapable of changing the situation.

bumby 3y ago

They probably mean “smart” as in “technical acumen” not “cunning”

eikenberry 3y ago

Money isn't a linear curve where $$$==happiness. More money does have a strong correspondence with happiness until you hit a certain level and then it falls off. A case of strongly diminishing returns where other sources of happiness will outweigh the need for more money. Things like liking your job being a big factor.