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This is capitalism working as intended. Whenever libertarians or deregulation-loving neoliberals start arguing for "smaller government" or deregulation just po

by jmyeet 3y ago

This is capitalism working as intended. Whenever libertarians or deregulation-loving neoliberals start arguing for "smaller government" or deregulation just point them to examples like this. Only government stops thinks like price-gouging, housing discrimination and many other state functions. What we're dealing with here in economic terms is what happens when you apply a largely unregulated market to a necessity that (by being a necessity) has inelastic demand. You need somewhere to live so the only function of capitalism in that case is to extract as much wealth from you as possible for something you can't possibly do without. Some will point out not all landlords do this (that's just a matter of time) and there is other software. This is the lie of competition when what we really end up with is price-fixing. Except price-fixing is technically illegal so instead you end up with "price leadership", which is the same thing but legal. This is where Delta decides to start charging $30 for a checked bag and United and American Airlines mysteriously follow suit. "Leadership". This isn't innovation. It's not even market efficiency. It's coercion, which is state violence, something people seem blind to. If you don't pay the sheriff will show up and phyusically throw you on the street. Eviction is violence.

aidenn0 3y ago
> This is capitalism working as intended. 1. Many capitalists and libertarians are in favor of antitrust regulations. Cartels are second only to the government in their ability to distort markets 2. Calling the housing market "unregulated" is a joke. In many places the supply is constrained largely due to regulations. 3. The tension between socialism and libertarianism in the US has ended up with kind of an anti-dialectic where we end up with the worst-of-both worlds (if your not a rentier). Any legislation that can reduce competition is framed as benefiting the poor, while any legislation that might upset the status-quo is framed as government overreach.
- pphysch 3y ago
  > Many capitalists and libertarians are in favor of antitrust regulations. Cartels are second only to the government in their ability to distort markets Who enforces these "antitrust regulations"? A gutted "small" government? > The tension between socialism and libertarianism in the US has ended up with kind of an anti-dialectic where we end up with the worst-of-both worlds This is an interesting framing, because during the original rise of socialism in the mid 20th century, USA had an extremely productive dialectic of socialism+libertarianism (1930-1960). It was only after the capitalists took over again in the 70s, and pushed back against socialism, that things started to go south for the median American. To say there is a significant component of socialism in today's USA is absurd, and demonstrates how foreign the concept of "socialism" has become. We are controlled by corporations and the corrupt politicians they manage. There is clearly NOT a dominant thread of "public servitude" that is required for a socially-oriented economy.
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    > Who enforces these "antitrust regulations"? A gutted "small" government? Yes? Small doesn't have to mean toothless. > This is an interesting framing, because during the original rise of socialism in the mid 20th century, USA had an extremely productive dialectic of socialism+libertarianism (1930-1960). It was only after the capitalists took over again in the 70s, and pushed back against socialism, that things started to go south for the median American. Friedman et. al. (who certainly championed the gutting of antitrust in the US) were able to take over in the at least partly because of a wide range of geopolitical events that happened to depress the US economy, and then Reagan (who Friedman was an advisor to) took credit for the recovery. While counterfactuals are difficult, I think the example of Thatcher (who Friedman also advised and in some ways paralleled Reagan on policy) gets blamed for the UK's economy in the 80s. > To say there is a significant component of socialism in today's USA is absurd, and demonstrates how foreign the concept of "socialism" has become. We are controlled by corporations and the corrupt politicians they manage. There is clearly NOT a dominant thread of "public servitude" that is required for a socially-oriented economy. I agree that we are left with the remnants of FDR's socialism that hurt the wealthy the least.
    - futureamish 3y ago
      Interesting that those geopolitical events, namely the gas-as-economic-subtrate in alleged peril, took place at the exact time conservatism came swooping to the rescue. Almost like US conservative oil tycoons were colluding with foreign nations in the ME to the detriment of our own.

by jmyeet 3y ago

aidenn0 3y ago

> This is capitalism working as intended. 1. Many capitalists and libertarians are in favor of antitrust regulations. Cartels are second only to the government in their ability to distort markets 2. Calling the housing market "unregulated" is a joke. In many places the supply is constrained largely due to regulations. 3. The tension between socialism and libertarianism in the US has ended up with kind of an anti-dialectic where we end up with the worst-of-both worlds (if your not a rentier). Any legislation that can reduce competition is framed as benefiting the poor, while any legislation that might upset the status-quo is framed as government overreach.

pphysch 3y ago
> Many capitalists and libertarians are in favor of antitrust regulations. Cartels are second only to the government in their ability to distort markets Who enforces these "antitrust regulations"? A gutted "small" government? > The tension between socialism and libertarianism in the US has ended up with kind of an anti-dialectic where we end up with the worst-of-both worlds This is an interesting framing, because during the original rise of socialism in the mid 20th century, USA had an extremely productive dialectic of socialism+libertarianism (1930-1960). It was only after the capitalists took over again in the 70s, and pushed back against socialism, that things started to go south for the median American. To say there is a significant component of socialism in today's USA is absurd, and demonstrates how foreign the concept of "socialism" has become. We are controlled by corporations and the corrupt politicians they manage. There is clearly NOT a dominant thread of "public servitude" that is required for a socially-oriented economy.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  > Who enforces these "antitrust regulations"? A gutted "small" government? Yes? Small doesn't have to mean toothless. > This is an interesting framing, because during the original rise of socialism in the mid 20th century, USA had an extremely productive dialectic of socialism+libertarianism (1930-1960). It was only after the capitalists took over again in the 70s, and pushed back against socialism, that things started to go south for the median American. Friedman et. al. (who certainly championed the gutting of antitrust in the US) were able to take over in the at least partly because of a wide range of geopolitical events that happened to depress the US economy, and then Reagan (who Friedman was an advisor to) took credit for the recovery. While counterfactuals are difficult, I think the example of Thatcher (who Friedman also advised and in some ways paralleled Reagan on policy) gets blamed for the UK's economy in the 80s. > To say there is a significant component of socialism in today's USA is absurd, and demonstrates how foreign the concept of "socialism" has become. We are controlled by corporations and the corrupt politicians they manage. There is clearly NOT a dominant thread of "public servitude" that is required for a socially-oriented economy. I agree that we are left with the remnants of FDR's socialism that hurt the wealthy the least.
  - futureamish 3y ago
    Interesting that those geopolitical events, namely the gas-as-economic-subtrate in alleged peril, took place at the exact time conservatism came swooping to the rescue. Almost like US conservative oil tycoons were colluding with foreign nations in the ME to the detriment of our own.