7 ms·

The App Store, 3 years later: Apple just doesn't care.

73 points by SeoxyS 15y ago

guan 15y ago
It’s worth noting that Apple has at least attempted to address many of these concerns. Rate on delete is gone and they’ve added “Top Grossing”. These days app reviews usually take a week. Of course the app store is still filled with junk apps, there are no paid updates, search is still broken and iTunes Connect is still a mess.
- chmars 15y ago
  iTunes itself remains a mess. I often change the audio books I sync to my iPhone. In iTunes, I cannot efficiently select audio books since after each click, iTunes pauses for 5-10 seconds including the usual spinning wait cursor. I am wondering if Apple will ever be able to release a version of iTunes with acceptable performance and a GUI for more than one task as a time.
  - stock_toaster 15y ago
    I kind of wish that Apple rolled the various 'stores' into a more unified interface, and did something like they did with quicktimeX for itunes (ituneX? ha). I think it may be more possible now that they are starting to rely/focus on icloud for various things (backups, match, sync). There is still a close relation between syncing media with iDevices via itunes though, so I can see how unifying stores outside of itunes would be challenging and possibly confusing to many end users. I really would like to see itunes becomes lighter and more usable though.
- cageface 15y ago
  Top Grossing is a nice idea in theory but in practice it just seems to reward the people with the most successful scammy IAP schemes.
joejohnson 15y ago
This blog is very well designed.
- dmix 15y ago
  "Great design is as little design as possible." Aesthetically and as a portfolio it looks great, as a blog the header a bit distracting and gets in the way of the content.
- SeoxyS 15y ago
  Thanks, much appreciated. As an aside, I just posted about my redesign and my motivations behind it: http://kswizz.com/post/20668660473/redesign http://kswizz.com/post/20668660473/redesign
  - dpark 15y ago
    FYI, in Chrome 18.0.1025.151 on Windows 7, your header (the crown, your name, and the slogan) stays in place when scrolling, obscuring the text. I don't know if other Chrome users are seeing this or not. (This behavior doesn't occur in IE on my machine).
    - SeoxyS 15y ago
      Should be good now if you reload, right? I've been messing with the javascript trying to add a lightbox and accidentally pushed a syntax error.
batista 15y ago
His most basic complaint is BS. There are 98% junk apps out there, he says. First, what's junk for one might be handy for another. Second, if Apple was to eliminate even 10% of this 98%, everybody would be screaming "censorship". Does he seriously suggest Apple remove 98% of apps (some 500.000+ apps) from the App Store? I also don't see what the "recent UUID fiasco" is. If anything it's allowing it in the first place, and not the deprecating of it now as he seems to suggest. Also Apple has taken lots of steps to make app reviews faster and more transparent. As for "Top Apps Charts: These charts have so much effect on whether an application gets noticed and downloaded that whether you show up on these charts can decide the fate of your application." Is that a gripe or just an observation? I fail to see how it can be a gripe --except as "sour grapes". The only relevant points are those about paid updates and maybe promotions. Paid updates would be very useful.
- objclxt 15y ago
  It's worth pointing out that Apple also acquired Chomp, the app discovery startup, a few months ago...you'd hope they acquired them to bring some of that knowledge into the app store.
- SeoxyS 15y ago
  Hey, author here. I just want to explain myself here. My most basic complaint is not that there are a lot of junk apps, nor am I suggesting that Apple remove them from the App Store. I'm merely pointing out that it's a problem, and causes problems for legitimate developers in the same way that newsletter clutter makes it hard to read emails from human beings when your inbox has 10,000 emails. I think this would not be an issue if the App Store's search functionality was not piss-poor, and if Apple had better discovery mechanisms in place for people to find the gems, which often are not present on the top charts. Hopefully the Chomp acquisition will help with that. The other thing I want to point out is that I'm not posting the list as a current list of complaints, more as a way to point out how sad it is that 3 years later, only two of these complaints have been addressed: rate-on-delete, and outrageous review times.
  - ktizo 15y ago
chmars 15y ago
I still miss trial versions. And downloads have recently become rather slow … Reviews are mostly useless except for actual paid apps. Reviews for 'free' apps (usually with ads or in-app purchases) are mostly worthless: http://notes.kateva.org/2012/04/side-effect-of-ios-in-app-purchase.html http://notes.kateva.org/2012/04/side-effect-of-ios-in-app-pu...
- sunnynagra 15y ago
  I do believe that when implemented properly by a developer, in-app purchasing can lead to a pseudo trial versions of apps. There is an implementation that I have used in an app that hasn't had anything, but good responses from users. Users are able to try out the vast majority of the features in a "trial." Even after the "trial" is over, most of the features are still accessible to users. If you want to check out our use of in app, check out the app here: Basketball Shot Tracker HD http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/basketball-shot-tracker-hd/id479103761?ls=1&mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/basketball-shot-tracker-hd/id...
stock_toaster 15y ago
> Apple just doesn’t care about its third-party developers I think Apple simply cares more about end users than third-party developers. Third-party developers are a means to an end (selling more hardware), not an end themselves (except insofar as developers are also users). I don't think that means that Apple as a company doesn't care about third-party developers. I think they clearly do. I just think they tend to side with users when there is a choice of making one group happy over the other. You can see this with new OS versions (faster deprecation cycles, api changes, etc). Contrast with companies you tend to think of that favor keeping third-party developers (and companies) happy over users. There is always a balance I think. The author even notes the "UDID Fiasco"[1]. This sure was a pain from an ad network point of view (it sure did make for a rough week at $dayjob), but as a consumer I was pleased. It was a while coming too, so it isn't like it was a surprise. [1]: The author of the article appears to work for chartboost, which runs a mobile ad network.
- abraxasz 15y ago
  Completely agree. This might explain why Apple didn't act on some of the "issues" raised by the OP: - "Junk Apps": As someone mentioned below, this one's really unreasonable. "Junk" is subjective, and even if it's not, who's to decide which app should be removed? - "[App Reviews] are nearly always of terrible quality": Again, what is Apple supposed to do here? Let the developers chose which reviews should be displayed for their apps? Impose a minimum number of characters for a review? Non of this makes much sense to me. - "Ringtone Apps": I really, really don't get this one. Maybe it makes sense from a developer point of view, but for a user point of view, I don't see what's wrong with apps prices decreasing. - "Customer Data is hidden": Uh? As a consumer, I'm happy about this one. Concerning the App Review paragraph, I can't say much, except that the complaints seem more reasonable. Anyway, I can understand the OP's opinion, but I think it's unfair to say that Apple doesn't care about developers. They probably care about developers (they do realize that the app store and app developers are central to the iphone's succes), but they care more about end users. And if they have to make a choice, they'd probably try to satisfy consumers over developers.
- bad_user 15y ago
  Not carrying about third-party developers directly hurts end-users, so I don't follow this logic. Third-party developers are a means to an end (selling more hardware) That's not related to the other point you made. Keeping end-users happy is also about selling more hardware. I don't think that means that Apple as a company doesn't care about third-party developers Well of course there are shades of gray, as always. I just think they tend to side with users when there is a choice of making one group happy over the other I don't see a conflict between end-users and developers in regards to the points raised in the article, except maybe the UDID deprecation. Would it hurt end-users in any way if the developers were able to reply to their reviews? Would it hurt end-users if the developers were able to push paid upgrades instead of having to create different apps?
mechanical_fish 15y ago
If I were forced to reduce the entire problem of tech punditry down to a single sentence, I think I'd try this: "Internet time", the incredibly-accelerated pace of everything, is a modern myth, a lie we tell ourselves. In fact, meaningful change takes time, perhaps as much time as it always has. Three years? Come back in, say, seven more years. By then maybe we'll know if Apple's store has a systemic, unsolveable problem or is just suffering growing pains from its overwhelming flood of success. Half a million apps and billions of downloads: It's a wonder that the system isn't considerably worse than it was a few years ago. Just think of how much stuff has needed to be scaled out and scaled up. They're probably running as fast as they can just to remain in place. Apple's "problem" is that they have a fairly small team that can only accomplish so much at one time, and yet they allow that team to invent bold new things that are minimally functional, then release them, then succeed so overwhelmingly that it's a struggle to keep up with the traffic. But does anyone have a better idea? This is what innovation looks like.
- bad_user 15y ago
  "Internet time", the incredibly-accelerated pace of everything, is a modern myth, a lie we tell ourselves I wouldn't call it a lie, because software scales better than humans do. When you're saying "half a million apps and billions of downloads" it's as if Apple themselves worked on those apps and all of those downloads were manually packaged by Apple employees in envelopes, signed by Ive and sent by postal office. Well, actually, the number of downloads is irrelevant. And if Apple can't handle the approval of those million apps, maybe that's because they've dug themselves into a corner by trying to force an asinine policy that doesn't even work for its intended purpose anyway.
  - ryannielsen 15y ago
    As I read it, you're positing two things: 1) It's effortless to build an infrastructure that handles reviewing half a million apps and hosting billions of downloads, and to scale up to those levels from nothing. 2) The app store review process doesn't serve its intended purpose. If that interpretation's correct, how do you support those assertions? #1 is demonstrably false, given the effort that many companies exert to handle reviewing and approving numerous kinds of content, and then vending that content to consumers around the world. Netflix, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, and Google are just a few companies that have large chunks of their organization devoted to approving content (be it movies, ads, apps, or ebooks) and then supporting the systems which host and vend that content around the world. Both are non-trivial problems and difficult things to scale at those magnitudes. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. I'd also claim that #2 is false. Malware is not a problem on the App Stores, and I feel eminently confident as a consumer that I can trust apps purchased on Apple's App Stores. As a developer, the review process has caught bugs in my apps before they've hit my users, and they've also been quick to approve updates that address urgent bugs that slipped past both my and their testing. You may disagree with some of their policies and the review process does make mistakes, but I don't believe you can assert they're largely ineffectual or incompetent, nor do I believe you can claim the process doesn't offer benefits to consumers. What other software store is as confidently and easily used by consumers around the world?
orangecat 15y ago
There’s no way to contest or respond to an erroneous review. There’s not even a way to respond to a review saying there’s a problem with the app with a solution, or a "that’s coming in the next update—hang tight." As both a developer and user, that's one of my main complaints with the Android market as well. Is there a good reason to not allow this that I'm overlooking?
- pkamb 15y ago
  Here's a gem of a review I received. Contested it with Apple and got nowhere :/ Very frustrating. Mis-information It is horrible when you don't provide enough information on the app description, or on their (garbage) website; and let people believe that this may be able to check other (e.g. gmail) accounts. I think they should have clearly written: CHECK YOUR REDDIT ACCOUNT). I will give 4-5 stars if that was the case, this is a request to the program developer to work around and make a useful little application. I am very frustrated. The app's name? Reddit Notifier http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/reddit-notifier/id468366517?mt=12 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/reddit-notifier/id468366517?m...
- sunnynagra 15y ago
  It seems that I may be in the minority, but I contested a 1 star written review because it was obvious that the reviewer didn't read the description and didn't even try the app before reviewing it badly. I reported it to Apple, stated my reasoning and within a day or two that review was removed. It was for this app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/basketball-shot-tracker-hd/id479103761?ls=1&mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/basketball-shot-tracker-hd/id... Granted I only did this once, but I think that since it was a clear cut case, Apple quickly removed that poor review.
  - pkamb 15y ago
    I successfully contested a customer review that was basically a text dump of promo codes I had posted elsewhere. But had no luck with the review I posted above, where I think it was obvious the review never read the description. Your milage may vary I guess, just like with app reviews.
adjwilli 15y ago
I was expecting more blow by boo coverage for the original post. Apple really had done a lot to smooth the process for app developers. Apps are getting review much quicker than before. With in-app purchases you can sell additional features in your upgrade, thus making those new features paid upgrades. I'm sure the charts algorithms are more complex than just pure download numbers, even normalized for time. The only real problems I see still are not being able to respond to unfair/untruthful reviews.
signalsignal 15y ago
I noticed the problem with iTunes connect has been fixed. It is actually much, much better than it used to be.
alpb 15y ago
Completely off-topic before reading the post: This guy's blog has a ridiculously tempting design.

73 points by SeoxyS 15y ago

guan 15y ago

It’s worth noting that Apple has at least attempted to address many of these concerns. Rate on delete is gone and they’ve added “Top Grossing”. These days app reviews usually take a week. Of course the app store is still filled with junk apps, there are no paid updates, search is still broken and iTunes Connect is still a mess.

chmars 15y ago
iTunes itself remains a mess. I often change the audio books I sync to my iPhone. In iTunes, I cannot efficiently select audio books since after each click, iTunes pauses for 5-10 seconds including the usual spinning wait cursor. I am wondering if Apple will ever be able to release a version of iTunes with acceptable performance and a GUI for more than one task as a time.
- stock_toaster 15y ago
  I kind of wish that Apple rolled the various 'stores' into a more unified interface, and did something like they did with quicktimeX for itunes (ituneX? ha). I think it may be more possible now that they are starting to rely/focus on icloud for various things (backups, match, sync). There is still a close relation between syncing media with iDevices via itunes though, so I can see how unifying stores outside of itunes would be challenging and possibly confusing to many end users. I really would like to see itunes becomes lighter and more usable though.
cageface 15y ago
Top Grossing is a nice idea in theory but in practice it just seems to reward the people with the most successful scammy IAP schemes.

joejohnson 15y ago

This blog is very well designed.

dmix 15y ago
"Great design is as little design as possible." Aesthetically and as a portfolio it looks great, as a blog the header a bit distracting and gets in the way of the content.
SeoxyS 15y ago
Thanks, much appreciated. As an aside, I just posted about my redesign and my motivations behind it: http://kswizz.com/post/20668660473/redesign http://kswizz.com/post/20668660473/redesign
- dpark 15y ago
  FYI, in Chrome 18.0.1025.151 on Windows 7, your header (the crown, your name, and the slogan) stays in place when scrolling, obscuring the text. I don't know if other Chrome users are seeing this or not. (This behavior doesn't occur in IE on my machine).
  - SeoxyS 15y ago
    Should be good now if you reload, right? I've been messing with the javascript trying to add a lightbox and accidentally pushed a syntax error.

batista 15y ago

His most basic complaint is BS. There are 98% junk apps out there, he says. First, what's junk for one might be handy for another. Second, if Apple was to eliminate even 10% of this 98%, everybody would be screaming "censorship". Does he seriously suggest Apple remove 98% of apps (some 500.000+ apps) from the App Store? I also don't see what the "recent UUID fiasco" is. If anything it's allowing it in the first place, and not the deprecating of it now as he seems to suggest. Also Apple has taken lots of steps to make app reviews faster and more transparent. As for "Top Apps Charts: These charts have so much effect on whether an application gets noticed and downloaded that whether you show up on these charts can decide the fate of your application." Is that a gripe or just an observation? I fail to see how it can be a gripe --except as "sour grapes". The only relevant points are those about paid updates and maybe promotions. Paid updates would be very useful.

objclxt 15y ago
It's worth pointing out that Apple also acquired Chomp, the app discovery startup, a few months ago...you'd hope they acquired them to bring some of that knowledge into the app store.
SeoxyS 15y ago
Hey, author here. I just want to explain myself here. My most basic complaint is not that there are a lot of junk apps, nor am I suggesting that Apple remove them from the App Store. I'm merely pointing out that it's a problem, and causes problems for legitimate developers in the same way that newsletter clutter makes it hard to read emails from human beings when your inbox has 10,000 emails. I think this would not be an issue if the App Store's search functionality was not piss-poor, and if Apple had better discovery mechanisms in place for people to find the gems, which often are not present on the top charts. Hopefully the Chomp acquisition will help with that. The other thing I want to point out is that I'm not posting the list as a current list of complaints, more as a way to point out how sad it is that 3 years later, only two of these complaints have been addressed: rate-on-delete, and outrageous review times.
- ktizo 15y ago

chmars 15y ago

I still miss trial versions. And downloads have recently become rather slow … Reviews are mostly useless except for actual paid apps. Reviews for 'free' apps (usually with ads or in-app purchases) are mostly worthless: http://notes.kateva.org/2012/04/side-effect-of-ios-in-app-purchase.html http://notes.kateva.org/2012/04/side-effect-of-ios-in-app-pu...

sunnynagra 15y ago
I do believe that when implemented properly by a developer, in-app purchasing can lead to a pseudo trial versions of apps. There is an implementation that I have used in an app that hasn't had anything, but good responses from users. Users are able to try out the vast majority of the features in a "trial." Even after the "trial" is over, most of the features are still accessible to users. If you want to check out our use of in app, check out the app here: Basketball Shot Tracker HD http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/basketball-shot-tracker-hd/id479103761?ls=1&mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/basketball-shot-tracker-hd/id...

stock_toaster 15y ago

> Apple just doesn’t care about its third-party developers I think Apple simply cares more about end users than third-party developers. Third-party developers are a means to an end (selling more hardware), not an end themselves (except insofar as developers are also users). I don't think that means that Apple as a company doesn't care about third-party developers. I think they clearly do. I just think they tend to side with users when there is a choice of making one group happy over the other. You can see this with new OS versions (faster deprecation cycles, api changes, etc). Contrast with companies you tend to think of that favor keeping third-party developers (and companies) happy over users. There is always a balance I think. The author even notes the "UDID Fiasco"[1]. This sure was a pain from an ad network point of view (it sure did make for a rough week at $dayjob), but as a consumer I was pleased. It was a while coming too, so it isn't like it was a surprise. [1]: The author of the article appears to work for chartboost, which runs a mobile ad network.

abraxasz 15y ago
Completely agree. This might explain why Apple didn't act on some of the "issues" raised by the OP: - "Junk Apps": As someone mentioned below, this one's really unreasonable. "Junk" is subjective, and even if it's not, who's to decide which app should be removed? - "[App Reviews] are nearly always of terrible quality": Again, what is Apple supposed to do here? Let the developers chose which reviews should be displayed for their apps? Impose a minimum number of characters for a review? Non of this makes much sense to me. - "Ringtone Apps": I really, really don't get this one. Maybe it makes sense from a developer point of view, but for a user point of view, I don't see what's wrong with apps prices decreasing. - "Customer Data is hidden": Uh? As a consumer, I'm happy about this one. Concerning the App Review paragraph, I can't say much, except that the complaints seem more reasonable. Anyway, I can understand the OP's opinion, but I think it's unfair to say that Apple doesn't care about developers. They probably care about developers (they do realize that the app store and app developers are central to the iphone's succes), but they care more about end users. And if they have to make a choice, they'd probably try to satisfy consumers over developers.
bad_user 15y ago
Not carrying about third-party developers directly hurts end-users, so I don't follow this logic. Third-party developers are a means to an end (selling more hardware) That's not related to the other point you made. Keeping end-users happy is also about selling more hardware. I don't think that means that Apple as a company doesn't care about third-party developers Well of course there are shades of gray, as always. I just think they tend to side with users when there is a choice of making one group happy over the other I don't see a conflict between end-users and developers in regards to the points raised in the article, except maybe the UDID deprecation. Would it hurt end-users in any way if the developers were able to reply to their reviews? Would it hurt end-users if the developers were able to push paid upgrades instead of having to create different apps?

mechanical_fish 15y ago

If I were forced to reduce the entire problem of tech punditry down to a single sentence, I think I'd try this: "Internet time", the incredibly-accelerated pace of everything, is a modern myth, a lie we tell ourselves. In fact, meaningful change takes time, perhaps as much time as it always has. Three years? Come back in, say, seven more years. By then maybe we'll know if Apple's store has a systemic, unsolveable problem or is just suffering growing pains from its overwhelming flood of success. Half a million apps and billions of downloads: It's a wonder that the system isn't considerably worse than it was a few years ago. Just think of how much stuff has needed to be scaled out and scaled up. They're probably running as fast as they can just to remain in place. Apple's "problem" is that they have a fairly small team that can only accomplish so much at one time, and yet they allow that team to invent bold new things that are minimally functional, then release them, then succeed so overwhelmingly that it's a struggle to keep up with the traffic. But does anyone have a better idea? This is what innovation looks like.

bad_user 15y ago
"Internet time", the incredibly-accelerated pace of everything, is a modern myth, a lie we tell ourselves I wouldn't call it a lie, because software scales better than humans do. When you're saying "half a million apps and billions of downloads" it's as if Apple themselves worked on those apps and all of those downloads were manually packaged by Apple employees in envelopes, signed by Ive and sent by postal office. Well, actually, the number of downloads is irrelevant. And if Apple can't handle the approval of those million apps, maybe that's because they've dug themselves into a corner by trying to force an asinine policy that doesn't even work for its intended purpose anyway.
- ryannielsen 15y ago
  As I read it, you're positing two things: 1) It's effortless to build an infrastructure that handles reviewing half a million apps and hosting billions of downloads, and to scale up to those levels from nothing. 2) The app store review process doesn't serve its intended purpose. If that interpretation's correct, how do you support those assertions? #1 is demonstrably false, given the effort that many companies exert to handle reviewing and approving numerous kinds of content, and then vending that content to consumers around the world. Netflix, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, and Google are just a few companies that have large chunks of their organization devoted to approving content (be it movies, ads, apps, or ebooks) and then supporting the systems which host and vend that content around the world. Both are non-trivial problems and difficult things to scale at those magnitudes. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. I'd also claim that #2 is false. Malware is not a problem on the App Stores, and I feel eminently confident as a consumer that I can trust apps purchased on Apple's App Stores. As a developer, the review process has caught bugs in my apps before they've hit my users, and they've also been quick to approve updates that address urgent bugs that slipped past both my and their testing. You may disagree with some of their policies and the review process does make mistakes, but I don't believe you can assert they're largely ineffectual or incompetent, nor do I believe you can claim the process doesn't offer benefits to consumers. What other software store is as confidently and easily used by consumers around the world?

orangecat 15y ago

There’s no way to contest or respond to an erroneous review. There’s not even a way to respond to a review saying there’s a problem with the app with a solution, or a "that’s coming in the next update—hang tight." As both a developer and user, that's one of my main complaints with the Android market as well. Is there a good reason to not allow this that I'm overlooking?

pkamb 15y ago
Here's a gem of a review I received. Contested it with Apple and got nowhere :/ Very frustrating. Mis-information It is horrible when you don't provide enough information on the app description, or on their (garbage) website; and let people believe that this may be able to check other (e.g. gmail) accounts. I think they should have clearly written: CHECK YOUR REDDIT ACCOUNT). I will give 4-5 stars if that was the case, this is a request to the program developer to work around and make a useful little application. I am very frustrated. The app's name? Reddit Notifier http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/reddit-notifier/id468366517?mt=12 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/reddit-notifier/id468366517?m...
sunnynagra 15y ago
It seems that I may be in the minority, but I contested a 1 star written review because it was obvious that the reviewer didn't read the description and didn't even try the app before reviewing it badly. I reported it to Apple, stated my reasoning and within a day or two that review was removed. It was for this app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/basketball-shot-tracker-hd/id479103761?ls=1&mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/basketball-shot-tracker-hd/id... Granted I only did this once, but I think that since it was a clear cut case, Apple quickly removed that poor review.
- pkamb 15y ago
  I successfully contested a customer review that was basically a text dump of promo codes I had posted elsewhere. But had no luck with the review I posted above, where I think it was obvious the review never read the description. Your milage may vary I guess, just like with app reviews.

adjwilli 15y ago

I was expecting more blow by boo coverage for the original post. Apple really had done a lot to smooth the process for app developers. Apps are getting review much quicker than before. With in-app purchases you can sell additional features in your upgrade, thus making those new features paid upgrades. I'm sure the charts algorithms are more complex than just pure download numbers, even normalized for time. The only real problems I see still are not being able to respond to unfair/untruthful reviews.

signalsignal 15y ago

I noticed the problem with iTunes connect has been fixed. It is actually much, much better than it used to be.

alpb 15y ago

Completely off-topic before reading the post: This guy's blog has a ridiculously tempting design.