8 ms·

Starlink plans to launch texting service in 2024, voice/data in 2025

86 points by ilamont 3y ago

RandallBrown 3y ago
I had a conversation with a friend the other day about how our kids will likely grow up in a world where there is always cell phone service. I didn't think it would actually happen this quickly since I thought it would take some time to scale down the starlink receivers to fit into cell phones. Turns out they can just do regular ol' LTE right from the satellites and they're close enough for phones to connect?
- freedomben 3y ago
  Yes agreed, this is unbelievably faster than I expected. Starlink is absolutely killing it. Although one important caveat is that it will work wherever you can see the sky. So there will still be some dead areas where ground towers and starlink can't reach (though of course that's probably a very small portion, like maybe 5%). But, that seems like a very tractable problem, so I'm sure there will be a solution in short order for those situations. The future is rampaging forward!
- GaggiX 3y ago
  >our kids will likely grow up in a world where there is always cell phone service. To be honest, I think this is already the case for many Europeans, as there is almost always coverage.
  - mh- 3y ago
    here in the States, the only time I've been without >=LTE cell service in the last few months was on a plane (in the air), and in the depths of NYC subways.
    - jabroni_salad 3y ago
      I take my vacations in the northwoods and barely get signal there. Lots of trees and no mountains to park a tower on. The cabin has a landline because you aren't gonna call 911 otherwise. There's also some hilly terrain in northeast iowa where you just can't keep a phone call unless you stop your car. The second you crest the peak you lose line of sight.
    - varenc 3y ago
      Tokyo and Seoul both have massive subways system but unlike NYC they seem to have figured out how to give you service even in the tunnels. (Mercifully though all NYC stations at least have service)
      - GaggiX 3y ago
        Here in Italy I also have full signal in the metro (at least the ones I have been), no idea how.
    - LeafItAlone 3y ago
      I have parts of my road (in the US) that can’t get any signal.
  - danhor 3y ago
    At least in germany this isn't the case. The cell coverage on trains is almost a meme by now (even though it's overstated) and and small communities/other attractions in very rural areas (rural for germany, a highway is still usually <50km away) often have very marginal to no cell coverage.
- bonton89 3y ago
  Yeah, I don't understand how this works. My understanding was that mobile phone signals naturally did not travel very far because of the spectrum they used, but maybe that is greatly extended for low bandwidth will LoS instead of ground obstructions. I wonder what it means for tracking a phone by tower pings.
  - cozzyd 3y ago
    Some mobile bands are as low as 600 MHz, which propagates quite well. The reason mobile phone signals don't travel so far are usually ground obstructions (including the horizon) and a relatively weak max power output (23 dBm probably? At least that's what the modems we use in our private LTE network in Greenland do...) The max power output is regulatory, but also for power reasons.
  - yencabulator 3y ago
    > My understanding was that mobile phone signals naturally did not travel very far because of the spectrum they used That's more about not going through trees etc. If you have a line of sight to a cell tower, what keeps you from connecting is mostly the radio trying to be polite and choosing not to talk to a cell tower that's more than some max time delay away. I assume for this they'll tweak the settings, and satellites are good for line of sight.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
uptown 3y ago
Apart from providing service where previously there may have been none available, is the real value to Starlink that they get user-data on who is using their service and what sites they're accessing? The same way a DNS provider can build a profile of its users based on the DNS record lookups -- or an ISP or VPN service can do the same. Don't we run the risk of Starlink becoming the only player providing this type of global service/access -- and leveraging the information collected from this business for use with advertising or to resell in ways that may not be in the best interest of the subscribers?
- camhart 3y ago
  Is the risk with starlink any different than verizon, comcast/xfinity, tmobile, etc?
  - Liam2010 3y ago
    [dead]
- jonathanstrange 3y ago
  What would be the difference to any other ISP / why do you single out Starlink? It seems that if you don't want them to get some information, you can use a VPN provider just like with any other ISP. Or did I misunderstand you?
- complianceowl 3y ago
  There's no difference between Starlink providing this service and any other ISP. Why didn't you ask what the value is for T-Mobile, Verizon, AT&T, or Comcast? Nearly every app, website, phone service, credit union, IoT device is harvesting our data and selling it to the highest bidder with no regard for ethics and privacy -- but you're concerned that Starlink will resell subscriber data. Starlink is not only providing service where none was available. In many cases, it's providing service in rural areas for a fraction of the cost of other providers who were exploiting people with no other option. Most importantly, in an age where governments and corporations (including the US) have been working together to censor views that don't align with the current agenda -- increasing services and products that could be censorship-resistant is something that should be applauded -- not shamed.
mariojv 3y ago
It looks like this will only be available in a few countries to start, but what would the implications be for censorship resistance if this were to be available in countries with significant internet censorship? Is anyone familiar enough with the underlying technology to know if countries would be able to identify individual users or jam the signal easily? My understanding is the main bottleneck for using Starlink for something like this today, besides the company's willingness to do so, is that the terminals are needed to use the network.
- basisword 3y ago
  You might find this[1] interesting. There has been some talk of Starlink providing internet access for aid groups in Palastine. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink-provide-connectivity-gaza-through-aid-organizations-2023-10-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink...
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  Well, radio is light in a different frequency, so any time you broadcast a radio signal anyone that can see said light can tell where you are. If there's any differentiating characteristics in the signal sent to these satellites vs regular cell towers it can be detected and the location of use easily identified.
gregschlom 3y ago
I know nothing about RF, can anyone comment on the technical challenges in making this possible? I always thought that you needed special antennas to communicate with satellites, how can a phone do it with no special hardware?
- perydell 3y ago
  A traditional geosynchronous satellite is 22,000 miles above you. A starlink satellite is only 340 miles above you. And when you are outside you have a great line of sight with nothing in the way.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Still, you're going to require a bit of energy to push your radio signal even 340 miles through the atmosphere...
    - fragmede 3y ago
      (power)
    - ben_bai 3y ago
      Since the announcement mentions "existing LTE phones" it seems to be no problem, power wise. So, it all depends on the satellites antenna.
  - haspok 3y ago
    And your regular cell tower is within a few miles of your mobile at most. A few hundred meters in most cases. The phone is transmitting a few watts tops. I am very skeptical of them promising anything other than very-very low bandwith data, but I would love to hear from someone who actually knows about this stuff.
    - _whiteCaps_ 3y ago
      I make voice contacts with folks via the ISS repeater using a 5W radio and an omnidirectional antenna. It's much easier if you have an antenna with better directional gain, but it's definitely possible. I'm assuming the Starlink satellites have higher gain antennas than the ISS's amateur radio setup, and they definitely have better coverage than the single space station. :)
atleastoptimal 3y ago
Damn as much as I find Musk annoying he is making 10x the impact on the world even in contrast to other CEO/tech magnates. Why can nobody else keep up?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ShakataGaNai 3y ago
  Probably because in order to make those sorts of 10x impacts he's doing... He's pushing the boundaries of whats legal, ethical and/or moral. Yes, some of it is simply his ability to "think different" and be willing to work outside the box. Sometimes those boxes are fully ok to break, sometimes those boxes are legal or ethical standards that he also breaks with vigor. Also a lot of the things he does is not 10x. Look at twitter. He's turned it from the worlds town square to a square filled with a bunch of white dudes in pointy white hats.
  - good8675309 3y ago
    Wow, but muh Twitter and everyone I don't like is in the KKK! Every single time. You need to get a new thing to be outraged about. Let's stay on topic here and not try to start a flame war.
  - spacephysics 3y ago
    That’s a bit of a straw man regarding twitter. Could easily discuss the mass left-wing censorship happening before, and now a different problem cropped up that Musk is trying to resolve. I think if he rolls out the $1 per year to post we’ll see a dramatic drop in bot activity.
  - Method-X 3y ago
    > filled with a bunch of white dudes in pointy white hats Huh? Are we using the same Twitter?
- callalex 3y ago
  Public funding does a lot of the work as well.
mantasmatron 3y ago
Any thoughts on AST SpaceMobile? It seems to be ahead of the game with regard to technology but obviously not scale relative to Starlink. https://www.satellitetoday.com/5g/2023/09/19/ast-spacemobile-reports-5g-broadband-speeds-via-satellite/ https://www.satellitetoday.com/5g/2023/09/19/ast-spacemobile...
- schiffern 3y ago
  If you check out their hardware[0,1] — and especially their upcoming hardware[2] — you quickly realize that it's AST SpaceMobile who will be "ruining the night sky for all humanity," not Starlink. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/2/23899530/satellite-night-sky-blue-walker-3-brightest-object https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/2/23899530/satellite-night-... [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/10/04/bright-satellite-study-bluewalker3/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/10/0... [2] https://spacenews.com/ast-spacemobile-discloses-further-satellite-delays-and-cost-increases/ https://spacenews.com/ast-spacemobile-discloses-further-sate...
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    With all the focus on Starlink, SpaceX has been about the best behaved anybody could expect from a constellation. Other constellations will be far worse. OneWeb for example is much, much worse for issues around space debris. The list goes on. Many companies less in the public eye won't care nearly as much as SpaceX.
takk309 3y ago
Would this mean that an emergency call would be available anywhere without a service contract, at least in the US? As it is now, if I were to dial 911, any tower that can connect must accept and route the call. For example, if my Verizon phone can only see AT&T towers the phone would show no bars but still says emergency calling only.
- jaywalk 3y ago
  I doubt it, at least initially. 911 calling is part of the licensing for cellular carriers, but Starlink isn't a cellular carrier. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out from a legal and regulatory point of view.
ChuckMcM 3y ago
This is not a surprising next step, it gives me several thoughts; 1) Starlink usurps nation-state controls, period. Whether it is enabling service when the local government doesn't want it, or denying service to an ally the US is trying to assist. My hunch is that if Elon keeps pushing it this direction it will be nationalized in order to bring it under government control. 2) The radio aspects are straight forward. As others have mentioned the satellites are just 340 miles away which is about 150 miles closer to earth than Iridium satellites. People have had Iridium satphones from even in the last century :-). Data bandwidth is better with Starlink and satellite to satellite links look like they will work. 3) Starlink is very difficult to jam (ask the Russians). The reason is that the comms are up/down versus side to side so jamming horizontally (typical) has no effect. That said, there are mixed reports of "ddos" jamming which is to say putting a bunch of ground terminals together to suck down bandwidth. As SpaceX retains the capacity to disable individual ground terminals at will this can be manually managed so it is a stop gap effort at best. Serious jamming efforts will probably be devised (a phased array antenna with a decent microwave power amplifier could probably "blind" all of the satellites in 'view') but that will take a while to happen. 4) Phone providers (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, Etc.) who are still paying off huge debt for the billions they paid for cellular spectrum in various regions will mount a political attack on the effort. I expect submarine campaigns suggesting that Starlink "defrauded" the FCC with its original spectrum licensing requests etc. Random prediction here is that SpaceX ends up making some big payout to spectrum holders to offset the "lost value" of their spectrum investment. 5) And finally, it isn't particularly useful if you are inside. And very much not useful in tunnels/subways etc. We might see a reversion to an old cell concept where the antenna is on your car and your car is your own personal cell tower for your phone. Would not be surprised at that. Also existing cell providers have supported relays in subterranean spaces for a while and I would not be surprised to see SpaceX join them in doing that.
- s3p 3y ago
  Really interesting points. About this one: > Phone providers (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, Etc.) who are still paying off huge debt for the billions they paid for cellular spectrum in various regions will mount a political attack on the effort. I expect submarine campaigns suggesting that Starlink defrauded the FCC with its original spectrum licensing requests etc. Didn't TMobile work with Starlink on a product that covers the entire US? How would they be against this?
onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
In the US, this could be the ultimate roaming service for MVNOs like Google Fi which can switch to many different networks.
- s3p 3y ago
  For now they are exclusively working with TMobile. Not sure if that extends to Fi since they use TM towers.
- throitallaway 3y ago
  Starlink is partnering with T-Mobile for this, and Fi uses T-Mobile.
Circuitous 3y ago
Interesting, I wonder how much power the satellites will need to emit, orbit is ~550km vs maybe 50-60km for typical LTE tower. And the other direction will probably be harder as phones can't just emit harder than they were built for, so that means much more sensitive receivers on orbit. The idea is amazing but I'm skeptical on technicalities.
boringalterego 3y ago
When you're very rural, news like this is wonderful. Hope it works out.
GaggiX 3y ago
Modern warfare would be an FPV drone attached to a phone with a Starlink subscription and a mortal shell.
skc 3y ago
Musk really is the comic book villain that you end up realizing might have a point. I don't like his approach necessarily, but am thankful that he and his companies exist.
ternaus 3y ago
Love this feature. At least my trips to mountains would be more safe as I will be always reach for help when needed. Being able to call and chat with your friends and family, while you are climbing big wall and sleep on the portable ledges would be really cool as well.
- beej71 3y ago
  Would be nice. I pay for an InReach subscription as it is.
derstander 3y ago
I was under the impression that Starlink satellites were Ku/Ka band (and E-band, apparently) according to Wikipedia. Isn’t LTE in L-/S-band? Is the plan to launch new satellites that also have LTE band or do previously launched satellites have a previously unknown LTE band subsystem? [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink Edit: Guess I should have looked a little harder. Here’s a reference to the Gen2 satellites with LTE https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/341576-spacex-asks-fcc-to-approve-direct-to-cellular-hardware-for-starlink-satellites https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/341576-spacex-asks-fcc-t...

86 points by ilamont 3y ago

I had a conversation with a friend the other day about how our kids will likely grow up in a world where there is always cell phone service. I didn't think it would actually happen this quickly since I thought it would take some time to scale down the starlink receivers to fit into cell phones. Turns out they can just do regular ol' LTE right from the satellites and they're close enough for phones to connect?

freedomben 3y ago
Yes agreed, this is unbelievably faster than I expected. Starlink is absolutely killing it. Although one important caveat is that it will work wherever you can see the sky. So there will still be some dead areas where ground towers and starlink can't reach (though of course that's probably a very small portion, like maybe 5%). But, that seems like a very tractable problem, so I'm sure there will be a solution in short order for those situations. The future is rampaging forward!
GaggiX 3y ago
>our kids will likely grow up in a world where there is always cell phone service. To be honest, I think this is already the case for many Europeans, as there is almost always coverage.
- mh- 3y ago
  here in the States, the only time I've been without >=LTE cell service in the last few months was on a plane (in the air), and in the depths of NYC subways.
  - jabroni_salad 3y ago
    I take my vacations in the northwoods and barely get signal there. Lots of trees and no mountains to park a tower on. The cabin has a landline because you aren't gonna call 911 otherwise. There's also some hilly terrain in northeast iowa where you just can't keep a phone call unless you stop your car. The second you crest the peak you lose line of sight.
  - varenc 3y ago
    Tokyo and Seoul both have massive subways system but unlike NYC they seem to have figured out how to give you service even in the tunnels. (Mercifully though all NYC stations at least have service)
    - GaggiX 3y ago
      Here in Italy I also have full signal in the metro (at least the ones I have been), no idea how.
  - LeafItAlone 3y ago
    I have parts of my road (in the US) that can’t get any signal.
- danhor 3y ago
  At least in germany this isn't the case. The cell coverage on trains is almost a meme by now (even though it's overstated) and and small communities/other attractions in very rural areas (rural for germany, a highway is still usually <50km away) often have very marginal to no cell coverage.
bonton89 3y ago
Yeah, I don't understand how this works. My understanding was that mobile phone signals naturally did not travel very far because of the spectrum they used, but maybe that is greatly extended for low bandwidth will LoS instead of ground obstructions. I wonder what it means for tracking a phone by tower pings.
- cozzyd 3y ago
  Some mobile bands are as low as 600 MHz, which propagates quite well. The reason mobile phone signals don't travel so far are usually ground obstructions (including the horizon) and a relatively weak max power output (23 dBm probably? At least that's what the modems we use in our private LTE network in Greenland do...) The max power output is regulatory, but also for power reasons.
- yencabulator 3y ago
  > My understanding was that mobile phone signals naturally did not travel very far because of the spectrum they used That's more about not going through trees etc. If you have a line of sight to a cell tower, what keeps you from connecting is mostly the radio trying to be polite and choosing not to talk to a cell tower that's more than some max time delay away. I assume for this they'll tweak the settings, and satellites are good for line of sight.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

uptown 3y ago

Apart from providing service where previously there may have been none available, is the real value to Starlink that they get user-data on who is using their service and what sites they're accessing? The same way a DNS provider can build a profile of its users based on the DNS record lookups -- or an ISP or VPN service can do the same. Don't we run the risk of Starlink becoming the only player providing this type of global service/access -- and leveraging the information collected from this business for use with advertising or to resell in ways that may not be in the best interest of the subscribers?

camhart 3y ago
Is the risk with starlink any different than verizon, comcast/xfinity, tmobile, etc?
- Liam2010 3y ago
  [dead]
jonathanstrange 3y ago
What would be the difference to any other ISP / why do you single out Starlink? It seems that if you don't want them to get some information, you can use a VPN provider just like with any other ISP. Or did I misunderstand you?
complianceowl 3y ago
There's no difference between Starlink providing this service and any other ISP. Why didn't you ask what the value is for T-Mobile, Verizon, AT&T, or Comcast? Nearly every app, website, phone service, credit union, IoT device is harvesting our data and selling it to the highest bidder with no regard for ethics and privacy -- but you're concerned that Starlink will resell subscriber data. Starlink is not only providing service where none was available. In many cases, it's providing service in rural areas for a fraction of the cost of other providers who were exploiting people with no other option. Most importantly, in an age where governments and corporations (including the US) have been working together to censor views that don't align with the current agenda -- increasing services and products that could be censorship-resistant is something that should be applauded -- not shamed.

mariojv 3y ago

It looks like this will only be available in a few countries to start, but what would the implications be for censorship resistance if this were to be available in countries with significant internet censorship? Is anyone familiar enough with the underlying technology to know if countries would be able to identify individual users or jam the signal easily? My understanding is the main bottleneck for using Starlink for something like this today, besides the company's willingness to do so, is that the terminals are needed to use the network.

basisword 3y ago
You might find this[1] interesting. There has been some talk of Starlink providing internet access for aid groups in Palastine. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink-provide-connectivity-gaza-through-aid-organizations-2023-10-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/musk-says-starlink...
friend_and_foe 3y ago
Well, radio is light in a different frequency, so any time you broadcast a radio signal anyone that can see said light can tell where you are. If there's any differentiating characteristics in the signal sent to these satellites vs regular cell towers it can be detected and the location of use easily identified.

gregschlom 3y ago

I know nothing about RF, can anyone comment on the technical challenges in making this possible? I always thought that you needed special antennas to communicate with satellites, how can a phone do it with no special hardware?

perydell 3y ago
A traditional geosynchronous satellite is 22,000 miles above you. A starlink satellite is only 340 miles above you. And when you are outside you have a great line of sight with nothing in the way.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Still, you're going to require a bit of energy to push your radio signal even 340 miles through the atmosphere...
  - fragmede 3y ago
    (power)
  - ben_bai 3y ago
    Since the announcement mentions "existing LTE phones" it seems to be no problem, power wise. So, it all depends on the satellites antenna.
- haspok 3y ago
  And your regular cell tower is within a few miles of your mobile at most. A few hundred meters in most cases. The phone is transmitting a few watts tops. I am very skeptical of them promising anything other than very-very low bandwith data, but I would love to hear from someone who actually knows about this stuff.
  - _whiteCaps_ 3y ago
    I make voice contacts with folks via the ISS repeater using a 5W radio and an omnidirectional antenna. It's much easier if you have an antenna with better directional gain, but it's definitely possible. I'm assuming the Starlink satellites have higher gain antennas than the ISS's amateur radio setup, and they definitely have better coverage than the single space station. :)

atleastoptimal 3y ago

Damn as much as I find Musk annoying he is making 10x the impact on the world even in contrast to other CEO/tech magnates. Why can nobody else keep up?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ShakataGaNai 3y ago
Probably because in order to make those sorts of 10x impacts he's doing... He's pushing the boundaries of whats legal, ethical and/or moral. Yes, some of it is simply his ability to "think different" and be willing to work outside the box. Sometimes those boxes are fully ok to break, sometimes those boxes are legal or ethical standards that he also breaks with vigor. Also a lot of the things he does is not 10x. Look at twitter. He's turned it from the worlds town square to a square filled with a bunch of white dudes in pointy white hats.
- good8675309 3y ago
  Wow, but muh Twitter and everyone I don't like is in the KKK! Every single time. You need to get a new thing to be outraged about. Let's stay on topic here and not try to start a flame war.
- spacephysics 3y ago
  That’s a bit of a straw man regarding twitter. Could easily discuss the mass left-wing censorship happening before, and now a different problem cropped up that Musk is trying to resolve. I think if he rolls out the $1 per year to post we’ll see a dramatic drop in bot activity.
- Method-X 3y ago
  > filled with a bunch of white dudes in pointy white hats Huh? Are we using the same Twitter?
callalex 3y ago
Public funding does a lot of the work as well.

mantasmatron 3y ago

Any thoughts on AST SpaceMobile? It seems to be ahead of the game with regard to technology but obviously not scale relative to Starlink. https://www.satellitetoday.com/5g/2023/09/19/ast-spacemobile-reports-5g-broadband-speeds-via-satellite/ https://www.satellitetoday.com/5g/2023/09/19/ast-spacemobile...

schiffern 3y ago
If you check out their hardware[0,1] — and especially their upcoming hardware[2] — you quickly realize that it's AST SpaceMobile who will be "ruining the night sky for all humanity," not Starlink. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/2/23899530/satellite-night-sky-blue-walker-3-brightest-object https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/2/23899530/satellite-night-... [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/10/04/bright-satellite-study-bluewalker3/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/10/0... [2] https://spacenews.com/ast-spacemobile-discloses-further-satellite-delays-and-cost-increases/ https://spacenews.com/ast-spacemobile-discloses-further-sate...
- panick21_ 3y ago
  With all the focus on Starlink, SpaceX has been about the best behaved anybody could expect from a constellation. Other constellations will be far worse. OneWeb for example is much, much worse for issues around space debris. The list goes on. Many companies less in the public eye won't care nearly as much as SpaceX.

takk309 3y ago

Would this mean that an emergency call would be available anywhere without a service contract, at least in the US? As it is now, if I were to dial 911, any tower that can connect must accept and route the call. For example, if my Verizon phone can only see AT&T towers the phone would show no bars but still says emergency calling only.

jaywalk 3y ago
I doubt it, at least initially. 911 calling is part of the licensing for cellular carriers, but Starlink isn't a cellular carrier. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out from a legal and regulatory point of view.

ChuckMcM 3y ago

This is not a surprising next step, it gives me several thoughts; 1) Starlink usurps nation-state controls, period. Whether it is enabling service when the local government doesn't want it, or denying service to an ally the US is trying to assist. My hunch is that if Elon keeps pushing it this direction it will be nationalized in order to bring it under government control. 2) The radio aspects are straight forward. As others have mentioned the satellites are just 340 miles away which is about 150 miles closer to earth than Iridium satellites. People have had Iridium satphones from even in the last century :-). Data bandwidth is better with Starlink and satellite to satellite links look like they will work. 3) Starlink is very difficult to jam (ask the Russians). The reason is that the comms are up/down versus side to side so jamming horizontally (typical) has no effect. That said, there are mixed reports of "ddos" jamming which is to say putting a bunch of ground terminals together to suck down bandwidth. As SpaceX retains the capacity to disable individual ground terminals at will this can be manually managed so it is a stop gap effort at best. Serious jamming efforts will probably be devised (a phased array antenna with a decent microwave power amplifier could probably "blind" all of the satellites in 'view') but that will take a while to happen. 4) Phone providers (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, Etc.) who are still paying off huge debt for the billions they paid for cellular spectrum in various regions will mount a political attack on the effort. I expect submarine campaigns suggesting that Starlink "defrauded" the FCC with its original spectrum licensing requests etc. Random prediction here is that SpaceX ends up making some big payout to spectrum holders to offset the "lost value" of their spectrum investment. 5) And finally, it isn't particularly useful if you are inside. And very much not useful in tunnels/subways etc. We might see a reversion to an old cell concept where the antenna is on your car and your car is your own personal cell tower for your phone. Would not be surprised at that. Also existing cell providers have supported relays in subterranean spaces for a while and I would not be surprised to see SpaceX join them in doing that.

s3p 3y ago
Really interesting points. About this one: > Phone providers (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, Etc.) who are still paying off huge debt for the billions they paid for cellular spectrum in various regions will mount a political attack on the effort. I expect submarine campaigns suggesting that Starlink defrauded the FCC with its original spectrum licensing requests etc. Didn't TMobile work with Starlink on a product that covers the entire US? How would they be against this?

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

In the US, this could be the ultimate roaming service for MVNOs like Google Fi which can switch to many different networks.

s3p 3y ago
For now they are exclusively working with TMobile. Not sure if that extends to Fi since they use TM towers.
throitallaway 3y ago
Starlink is partnering with T-Mobile for this, and Fi uses T-Mobile.

Circuitous 3y ago

Interesting, I wonder how much power the satellites will need to emit, orbit is ~550km vs maybe 50-60km for typical LTE tower. And the other direction will probably be harder as phones can't just emit harder than they were built for, so that means much more sensitive receivers on orbit. The idea is amazing but I'm skeptical on technicalities.

boringalterego 3y ago

When you're very rural, news like this is wonderful. Hope it works out.

GaggiX 3y ago

Modern warfare would be an FPV drone attached to a phone with a Starlink subscription and a mortal shell.

skc 3y ago

Musk really is the comic book villain that you end up realizing might have a point. I don't like his approach necessarily, but am thankful that he and his companies exist.

ternaus 3y ago

Love this feature. At least my trips to mountains would be more safe as I will be always reach for help when needed. Being able to call and chat with your friends and family, while you are climbing big wall and sleep on the portable ledges would be really cool as well.

beej71 3y ago
Would be nice. I pay for an InReach subscription as it is.

derstander 3y ago

I was under the impression that Starlink satellites were Ku/Ka band (and E-band, apparently) according to Wikipedia. Isn’t LTE in L-/S-band? Is the plan to launch new satellites that also have LTE band or do previously launched satellites have a previously unknown LTE band subsystem? [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink Edit: Guess I should have looked a little harder. Here’s a reference to the Gen2 satellites with LTE https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/341576-spacex-asks-fcc-to-approve-direct-to-cellular-hardware-for-starlink-satellites https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/341576-spacex-asks-fcc-t...