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The fact that this is being shut down vs being sold or at least integrated deeply in credit karma speaks so poorly for the intuit management I am not even sure

by ds 3y ago

The fact that this is being shut down vs being sold or at least integrated deeply in credit karma speaks so poorly for the intuit management I am not even sure what to say. The app has to be capable of generating millions a month in revenue at the least. Who is on the leadership team for mint, so I know to never work or partner with them in the future? This is so insanely incompetent its just.. shocking. This is a fumble not seen since skype fell asleep and did nothing during 2021 while google and zoom came and took their entire market. At the very least, make the app paid only. If you are worried about upsetting me because I have to pay for something that used to be free, trust me- Im going to be way more pissed about not being able to use it at all. I dont know, this whole thing just rubs me the wrong way. Intuit is a public company that should be focused on maximizing revenue. Destroying a app thats worth 500m-1b on the private market seems like its worthy of a shareholder lawsuit. I dont say this out of spite or trolling. I say this as a user of mint since they launched in 2007. Ive been with this app, letting them ravage and sell my data for over 15 years. https://i.imgur.com/XlioSth.png https://i.imgur.com/XlioSth.png . My old startup even participated in the same crunchies award as mint did, when we both won (us for bootstrapped startup and mint for founder of the year) so I am nostalgic about them being put out to pasture for no reason.

sydbarrett74 3y ago
The Intuit management are doing exactly what they seek to do. The company is nothing more than a pure rent-seeker. Yay, rentier capitalism!
gk1 3y ago
- Intuit's revenue was $14.4 billion last year. An app making "millions" per month is a drop in the bucket. - Intuit paid $4.7 billion for Credit Karma, and only $170M for Mint. - Credit Karma had expected revenues of $1.5 billion in 2021. (https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/05/how-credit-karma-acquired-amid-covid-chaos-fared-in-its-first-year-under-intuit/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/05/how-credit-karma-acquired-...) - We don't know how much it cost (in time and money) to keep Mint running.
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
  I can't believe that they make so much on a tax product. The govt should really step in and make this free and easy.
  - RC_ITR 3y ago
    Just a nit: Nearly 2/3rd of that revenue comes from non-TurboTax products.
    - ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
      Oh interesting. Do you know what the breakdown is of the non tt products?
      - wsetchell 3y ago
        https://businessquant.com/intuit-revenue-breakdown-by-segment https://businessquant.com/intuit-revenue-breakdown-by-segmen... https://investors.intuit.com/news/news-details/2022/Intuit-Reports-Strong-Full-Year-Results-and-Sets-Fiscal-2023-Guidance/default.aspx https://investors.intuit.com/news/news-details/2022/Intuit-R...
      - RC_ITR 3y ago
        The big one is Quickbooks, which most small businesses use for basic accounting.
        red-iron-pine 3y ago
        yeah quickbooks is BIG.
  - ramesh31 3y ago
    > I can't believe that they make so much on a tax product. The govt should really step in and make this free and easy. Unpopular opinion, but I think it's a great product and I enjoy using it every year. Pricing is a bit steep, but let's not pretend like TurboTax doesn't have fantastic UX. As an FE, I have always held their design org in high regard. And I can't possibly imagine a government agency doing better.
RC_ITR 3y ago
>This is a fumble not seen since skype fell asleep and did nothing during 2021 while google and zoom came and took their entire market. Wouldn't a start-up competitor need to enter (and then grow) the space in order for this to be a failure like that? If it's such a potentially lucrative product, then why have the myriad of VC-funded challengers languished? I think in reality, Mint.com is a classic niche product where a small set of competent users (the kind you see on HN) love it, but most people just don't see a need for it.
vel0city 3y ago
"Skype" didn't fall asleep and do nothing. It got reworked into a new platform. Microsoft Teams is used by like 280M users, roughly the same size as Zoom. Google Meet has ~100M users.
- stryan 3y ago
  As far as I know Skype and Microsoft Teams are separate platforms, currently coexisting though the business parts of Skype are slowly being phased out in lieu of Teams.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Skype and Microsoft Teams (Personal) can message each other, its essentially the same platform.
- ds 3y ago
  Its great that Microsoft has teams- but nothing to do with skype as a consumer front-facing product. Years ago, Skype was the de-facto solution for video calls and video meetings. There was no zoom, there was no google meet. Skype was so known for video chat that it was a verb. 'Skype me' Skype absolutely and completely fell asleep at the wheel and wholesale abandoned the public market to Zoom, Discord and Google. Its not like it happened overnight either. Skype had the ability to respond to these guys but instead did almost nothing after a redesign to 'skype 8' in 2018. I cant exclaim how astronomical a failure it is to go from being the defacto verb for video calls and instant messaging to not even having 5% of the end-user consumer market anymore. It would be like if people stopped using google for search, or youtube for videos. You dont get to say "Yeah well google got reworked into gsuite which has 300m users" - Its still a failure of biblical proportions. They should have been capable of creating a enterprise product and keeping their consumer offering going. -- Just to be clear, I understand teams is large and doing well. Its also a enterprise product and it has nothing to do with what im talking about above. Discord (~20b valuation) only exists because Skype did zero updates or innovation for years.
e63f67dd-065b 3y ago
> The app has to be capable of generating millions a month in revenue at the least. Who is on the leadership team for mint, so I know to never work or partner with them in the future? This is so insanely incompetent its just.. shocking. I have the opposite perspective: management made the right call pulling the plug on Mint. The problem with Mint is that it most likely loses a huge amount of money; from what I've read, most data aggregators charge a fixed amount per account + a fee per API call, so they have to recuperate their costs by selling ads. That's why Credit Karma makes money: credit card/loan/insurance referrals are worth insane amounts (I've heard numbers like $100+ per sign up for premium cards, even more for insurance/mortgage), so it only makes sense to shuffle customers over to Credit Karma where the sales funnel is much more effective. If one credit card referral can pay for the customer's API calls for a few years, it only makes sense to aggressively push for it.
- drc500free 3y ago
  Absolutely. I've seen life insurance referral fees at over $1000 per successful application. Auto Insurance, when the market is soft (which it isn't right now), can sell at well over $100 per CLICK for premium consumers.

by ds 3y ago

sydbarrett74 3y ago

The Intuit management are doing exactly what they seek to do. The company is nothing more than a pure rent-seeker. Yay, rentier capitalism!

gk1 3y ago

- Intuit's revenue was $14.4 billion last year. An app making "millions" per month is a drop in the bucket. - Intuit paid $4.7 billion for Credit Karma, and only $170M for Mint. - Credit Karma had expected revenues of $1.5 billion in 2021. (https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/05/how-credit-karma-acquired-amid-covid-chaos-fared-in-its-first-year-under-intuit/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/05/how-credit-karma-acquired-...) - We don't know how much it cost (in time and money) to keep Mint running.

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
I can't believe that they make so much on a tax product. The govt should really step in and make this free and easy.
- RC_ITR 3y ago
  Just a nit: Nearly 2/3rd of that revenue comes from non-TurboTax products.
  - ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
    Oh interesting. Do you know what the breakdown is of the non tt products?
    - wsetchell 3y ago
      https://businessquant.com/intuit-revenue-breakdown-by-segment https://businessquant.com/intuit-revenue-breakdown-by-segmen... https://investors.intuit.com/news/news-details/2022/Intuit-Reports-Strong-Full-Year-Results-and-Sets-Fiscal-2023-Guidance/default.aspx https://investors.intuit.com/news/news-details/2022/Intuit-R...
    - RC_ITR 3y ago
      The big one is Quickbooks, which most small businesses use for basic accounting.
      - red-iron-pine 3y ago
        yeah quickbooks is BIG.
- ramesh31 3y ago
  > I can't believe that they make so much on a tax product. The govt should really step in and make this free and easy. Unpopular opinion, but I think it's a great product and I enjoy using it every year. Pricing is a bit steep, but let's not pretend like TurboTax doesn't have fantastic UX. As an FE, I have always held their design org in high regard. And I can't possibly imagine a government agency doing better.

RC_ITR 3y ago

>This is a fumble not seen since skype fell asleep and did nothing during 2021 while google and zoom came and took their entire market. Wouldn't a start-up competitor need to enter (and then grow) the space in order for this to be a failure like that? If it's such a potentially lucrative product, then why have the myriad of VC-funded challengers languished? I think in reality, Mint.com is a classic niche product where a small set of competent users (the kind you see on HN) love it, but most people just don't see a need for it.

vel0city 3y ago

"Skype" didn't fall asleep and do nothing. It got reworked into a new platform. Microsoft Teams is used by like 280M users, roughly the same size as Zoom. Google Meet has ~100M users.

stryan 3y ago
As far as I know Skype and Microsoft Teams are separate platforms, currently coexisting though the business parts of Skype are slowly being phased out in lieu of Teams.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Skype and Microsoft Teams (Personal) can message each other, its essentially the same platform.
ds 3y ago
Its great that Microsoft has teams- but nothing to do with skype as a consumer front-facing product. Years ago, Skype was the de-facto solution for video calls and video meetings. There was no zoom, there was no google meet. Skype was so known for video chat that it was a verb. 'Skype me' Skype absolutely and completely fell asleep at the wheel and wholesale abandoned the public market to Zoom, Discord and Google. Its not like it happened overnight either. Skype had the ability to respond to these guys but instead did almost nothing after a redesign to 'skype 8' in 2018. I cant exclaim how astronomical a failure it is to go from being the defacto verb for video calls and instant messaging to not even having 5% of the end-user consumer market anymore. It would be like if people stopped using google for search, or youtube for videos. You dont get to say "Yeah well google got reworked into gsuite which has 300m users" - Its still a failure of biblical proportions. They should have been capable of creating a enterprise product and keeping their consumer offering going. -- Just to be clear, I understand teams is large and doing well. Its also a enterprise product and it has nothing to do with what im talking about above. Discord (~20b valuation) only exists because Skype did zero updates or innovation for years.

e63f67dd-065b 3y ago

> The app has to be capable of generating millions a month in revenue at the least. Who is on the leadership team for mint, so I know to never work or partner with them in the future? This is so insanely incompetent its just.. shocking. I have the opposite perspective: management made the right call pulling the plug on Mint. The problem with Mint is that it most likely loses a huge amount of money; from what I've read, most data aggregators charge a fixed amount per account + a fee per API call, so they have to recuperate their costs by selling ads. That's why Credit Karma makes money: credit card/loan/insurance referrals are worth insane amounts (I've heard numbers like $100+ per sign up for premium cards, even more for insurance/mortgage), so it only makes sense to shuffle customers over to Credit Karma where the sales funnel is much more effective. If one credit card referral can pay for the customer's API calls for a few years, it only makes sense to aggressively push for it.

drc500free 3y ago
Absolutely. I've seen life insurance referral fees at over $1000 per successful application. Auto Insurance, when the market is soft (which it isn't right now), can sell at well over $100 per CLICK for premium consumers.