4 ms·

Are Cyclists Better People Than Drivers? This Study Say So

15 points by tcfhgj 3y ago

SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
I won't comment on the "better people" aspect, that seems kind of loaded, but I know that my cycling/running trips around the neighbourhood are much better at helping me feel a part of and knowledgeable about the area than when I get in the car.
- lapetitejort 3y ago
  I concur. Getting an e-scooter makes me see my city in a new way. I chalk it up to ease of transition. If I want to stop and look at something, I can do so in seconds. I can just walk my scooter on the sidewalk and sightsee to my heart's content. I'm less likely to notice something interesting in my car as I'm focused on not killing people. I can't just stop suddenly. I have to find parking. I worry about what's going to happen to my car. Sure, if I want to leave my scooter behind I have to find even more sparse bike racks or risk it getting stolen. Then again, the total loss might be less than the heartache of dealing with insurance and the police.
  - Gibbon1 3y ago
    I've driven a golf cart around on a residential street and rode in an old model T. Both have an immediacy with your surroundings that you simply do not get in a car. Digress, immediacy is why convertibles were popular. Immediacy is fun. Where driving most cars is like playing a sucky video game. Yes lets play EA's Commute to Work for an hour in the morning and an hour after work. Makes me think about a different world with scooters, bicycles, and low speed vehicles dealing with transits last 3 mile problem instead of using cars cars and more cars.
bparsons 3y ago
My observation is that perfectly nice people turn into sociopaths when driving large vehicles. They instantly become resentful of all other road users, especially pedestrians or cyclists who might slow them down. You can watch the transformation in real time.
YtGoodman 3y ago
My observation is that perfectly nice people turn into sociopaths when biking on public roads. They instantly become resentful of all other road users, especially pedestrians or drivers who they slow down. You can watch the transformation in real time.
- lapetitejort 3y ago
  How much damage can a sociopath do with a 7kg bike with no airbags?
  - falcolas 3y ago
    1) 7kg is on the featherweight end of the bike scale - that is not representative of most bikes on the road 2) A fair bit when you include the 80kg rider going at 24kph into an unaware pedestrian.
    - xracy 3y ago
      Are we actually going to compare the momentum of a bike in a vacuum? I will give you 20kg for a bike even, because the weight of the bike is so negligible. 100kg * 24km/h = 2400 kgkm/h vs a car If we cross-reference this with a list of pedestrian fatalities based on speed [1] Assuming a standard car size of 1000kg. 1000kg * 25kph = 25000 kgkm/h == 10% Risk of severe Injury 1000kg * 37kph = 37000 kgkm/h == 10% Fatality 1000kg * 51kph = 52000 kgkm/h == 25% Fatality 1000kg * 67kph = 67000 kgkm/h == 50% Fatality 1000kg * 80kph = 80000 kgkm/h == 75% Fatality 1000kg * 93kph = 93000 kgkm/h == 90% Fatality I'm not saying this doesn't happen, but you're looking at momentums that are an order of magnitude smaller than momentums where people are at severe risk of injury with a car. I will choose to get hit by the bicycle every day of the week. [1] https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/#:~:text=The%20average%20risk%20of%20death,Risks%20vary%20significantly%20by%20age https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-seve.... 2016-2020 Data: https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance/auto/analysis/pedestrian-chance-of-survival/#speed-and-fatality-rates https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance/auto/analysis/pedestrian...
- xracy 3y ago
PreInternet01 3y ago
Upfront: I live in Amsterdam (NL) and haven't owned a car in at least a decade: in fact, I'm slightly opposed to private car ownership, since that just causes a lot of metal junk taking up otherwise usable space. I walk and/or cycle everywhere where possible, am an avid public transport customer, and use public (shared) and/or privately rented EVs for any other trips. However, the idea that cyclists are in any way "better" than automotive drivers is entirely ridiculous. Sure, they pollute less, but that's not what we're talking about here. Once a certain class of drivers gets the upper hand in everyday traffic, bad things happen. So, if you're a cyclist in, say, San Francisco (US), you will frequently get threatened by automotive traffic. This is bad. But, if you're a pedestrian (or even a not-so-experienced automotive driver) in Amsterdam (NL), you'll frequently get intimidated by over-entitled cyclists. This is bad as well. Change is needed, but that mostly comes in the form of "sharing is good", not "this class is better than the other"...
- thinkindie 3y ago
  I think you missed the point of the article - cyclist are described as "better" because they are more aware of their surroundings and more involved in their local community. Btw on your point, I visited Amsterdam for the first time this March and I didn't feel threatened by over entitled cyclist at all, but the fact that I live in Berlin might give me a different perspective.
  - PreInternet01 3y ago
    > cyclist are described as "better" because they are more aware of their surroundings and more involved in their local community If that's indeed the point of the article (which seems to be your conclusion, not mine...), it's plain misguided. Cyclists, once they're the majority of traffic, are just as singularly and a-socially focused on getting from A to B as anyone. The only way to break through that kind of behavior is to emphasis sharing.
    - Arnt 3y ago
      I'm sure you're right, but motorists turn right without looking and occasionally kill someone. Antisocial behaviour without the fatalities is an improvement.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
illustrated: https://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences/cutting_off https://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences/cutting_off

15 points by tcfhgj 3y ago

I won't comment on the "better people" aspect, that seems kind of loaded, but I know that my cycling/running trips around the neighbourhood are much better at helping me feel a part of and knowledgeable about the area than when I get in the car.

lapetitejort 3y ago
I concur. Getting an e-scooter makes me see my city in a new way. I chalk it up to ease of transition. If I want to stop and look at something, I can do so in seconds. I can just walk my scooter on the sidewalk and sightsee to my heart's content. I'm less likely to notice something interesting in my car as I'm focused on not killing people. I can't just stop suddenly. I have to find parking. I worry about what's going to happen to my car. Sure, if I want to leave my scooter behind I have to find even more sparse bike racks or risk it getting stolen. Then again, the total loss might be less than the heartache of dealing with insurance and the police.
- Gibbon1 3y ago
  I've driven a golf cart around on a residential street and rode in an old model T. Both have an immediacy with your surroundings that you simply do not get in a car. Digress, immediacy is why convertibles were popular. Immediacy is fun. Where driving most cars is like playing a sucky video game. Yes lets play EA's Commute to Work for an hour in the morning and an hour after work. Makes me think about a different world with scooters, bicycles, and low speed vehicles dealing with transits last 3 mile problem instead of using cars cars and more cars.

bparsons 3y ago

My observation is that perfectly nice people turn into sociopaths when driving large vehicles. They instantly become resentful of all other road users, especially pedestrians or cyclists who might slow them down. You can watch the transformation in real time.

YtGoodman 3y ago

My observation is that perfectly nice people turn into sociopaths when biking on public roads. They instantly become resentful of all other road users, especially pedestrians or drivers who they slow down. You can watch the transformation in real time.

lapetitejort 3y ago
How much damage can a sociopath do with a 7kg bike with no airbags?
- falcolas 3y ago
  1) 7kg is on the featherweight end of the bike scale - that is not representative of most bikes on the road 2) A fair bit when you include the 80kg rider going at 24kph into an unaware pedestrian.
  - xracy 3y ago
    Are we actually going to compare the momentum of a bike in a vacuum? I will give you 20kg for a bike even, because the weight of the bike is so negligible. 100kg * 24km/h = 2400 kgkm/h vs a car If we cross-reference this with a list of pedestrian fatalities based on speed [1] Assuming a standard car size of 1000kg. 1000kg * 25kph = 25000 kgkm/h == 10% Risk of severe Injury 1000kg * 37kph = 37000 kgkm/h == 10% Fatality 1000kg * 51kph = 52000 kgkm/h == 25% Fatality 1000kg * 67kph = 67000 kgkm/h == 50% Fatality 1000kg * 80kph = 80000 kgkm/h == 75% Fatality 1000kg * 93kph = 93000 kgkm/h == 90% Fatality I'm not saying this doesn't happen, but you're looking at momentums that are an order of magnitude smaller than momentums where people are at severe risk of injury with a car. I will choose to get hit by the bicycle every day of the week. [1] https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/#:~:text=The%20average%20risk%20of%20death,Risks%20vary%20significantly%20by%20age https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-seve.... 2016-2020 Data: https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance/auto/analysis/pedestrian-chance-of-survival/#speed-and-fatality-rates https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance/auto/analysis/pedestrian...
xracy 3y ago

PreInternet01 3y ago

Upfront: I live in Amsterdam (NL) and haven't owned a car in at least a decade: in fact, I'm slightly opposed to private car ownership, since that just causes a lot of metal junk taking up otherwise usable space. I walk and/or cycle everywhere where possible, am an avid public transport customer, and use public (shared) and/or privately rented EVs for any other trips. However, the idea that cyclists are in any way "better" than automotive drivers is entirely ridiculous. Sure, they pollute less, but that's not what we're talking about here. Once a certain class of drivers gets the upper hand in everyday traffic, bad things happen. So, if you're a cyclist in, say, San Francisco (US), you will frequently get threatened by automotive traffic. This is bad. But, if you're a pedestrian (or even a not-so-experienced automotive driver) in Amsterdam (NL), you'll frequently get intimidated by over-entitled cyclists. This is bad as well. Change is needed, but that mostly comes in the form of "sharing is good", not "this class is better than the other"...

thinkindie 3y ago
I think you missed the point of the article - cyclist are described as "better" because they are more aware of their surroundings and more involved in their local community. Btw on your point, I visited Amsterdam for the first time this March and I didn't feel threatened by over entitled cyclist at all, but the fact that I live in Berlin might give me a different perspective.
- PreInternet01 3y ago
  > cyclist are described as "better" because they are more aware of their surroundings and more involved in their local community If that's indeed the point of the article (which seems to be your conclusion, not mine...), it's plain misguided. Cyclists, once they're the majority of traffic, are just as singularly and a-socially focused on getting from A to B as anyone. The only way to break through that kind of behavior is to emphasis sharing.
  - Arnt 3y ago
    I'm sure you're right, but motorists turn right without looking and occasionally kill someone. Antisocial behaviour without the fatalities is an improvement.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

illustrated: https://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences/cutting_off https://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences/cutting_off