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You can use Android completely without any proprietary Google stuff. You can't do the same with iOS.

by tazjin 3y ago

wkat4242 3y ago
True this is exactly what I do and why Android can actually be better and more open than iOS.
drcongo 3y ago
I use iOS without any proprietary Google stuff, so you absolutely can.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- doix 3y ago
  Ha! This joke is straight out of radio Yerevan[0]: > Radio Yerevan was asked: "Is it true that there is freedom of speech in the USSR (in some versions, Russia), just like in the USA?" Radio Yerevan answered: "In principle, yes. In the USA, you can stand in front of the White House and yell, “Down with Reagan!”, and you will not be punished. Equally, you can also stand in the Red Square in Moscow and yell, “Down with Reagan!”, and you will not be punished." [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Yerevan_jokes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Yerevan_jokes
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    We had a different joke: "America is so free, that I piss in front of Bush as he's passing by me." "It's the same in Russia. I also piss when Putin passes by me. Except I don't take it out of my pants."
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Now try using it without any proprietary Apple stuff :)
mrweasel 3y ago
A few weeks ago there was an article about Microsoft, Bing and Edge and their tracking of users, and it struck me that if Microsoft cared about mobile at this point, they are in a pretty good position to push a de-Google Android. Microsoft has all the expertise in partnering with vendors and getting them to ship their operating systems, they have a rough idea about how to run an app store and they have access to developer. A de-Google, privacy focused Microsoft Android, with a Microsoft store, the ability to run native Android apps and perhaps .Net application, pushed by Microsoft sales and vendor channel seems pretty interesting to me. But Microsoft doesn't care about neither privacy, nor mobile and practically no phone manufacturers really care to ship anything but Android at this point.
- xethos 3y ago
  > practically no phone manufacturers really care to ship anything but Android at this point I sure as shit can't blame them - for a decade, Google tied Google Mobile Services (including things like Google Maps and the Play Store) to shipping Google's Android exclusively. If OEMs wanted to fork Android and drop Google for Microsoft, they'd (up until at least 2018) lose their license to GMS for all handsets sold. That changed in 2018 [0], when Google were told by the EU they would "... also need to stop preventing phone makers from using forked versions of Android" (from [0]). I'm sure Google wouldn't pull any other licensing tricks to keep Microsoft or Huawei from making a competitive fork of Android now though! /s [0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-eu-fine-antitrust https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-e...
  - tazjin 3y ago
    Huawei has a competitive fork of Android, but it's not interested in the West anymore, so it's not going to compete on the US market.
    - xethos 3y ago
      > it's not interested in the West anymore Respectfully, I'm not sure it was entirely Huawei (the company)'s decision. Being a major multi-national from mainland China, calling them "an arm of the CCP" isn't really fair, but neither is it entirely false. More to the point - I tried to avoid being misleading; the arm-twisting (we know of) ended in 2018. But between the precedent, and the dozen other proprietary Google frameworks and legal agreements that could be serviced to this end in confidential OEM deals, I'm completely unsurprised nobody else has really stepped up.
kaba0 3y ago
Apple is primarily a hardware company. Their ad business is successful in a basic-ass, privacy-friendly way, because to show ads on their platform, you have to pay apple, no competitors there. Google literally lives from ads, this is just not a comparison made in good-faith.
- tazjin 3y ago
  It is a comparison made in good faith. I'm sick and tired of being forced to use proprietary software, which means being forced to endure bugs I can't fix, and while it's not feasible to live a modern life Stallman-style, you can already get pretty far. Apple is the antithesis of this. One company shows up and makes all decisions for you, and you have no recourse, and that's it. If you don't like it, sucks to be you, go buy something else (I did).
  - threeseed 3y ago
    No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone and no one is forcing you to use proprietary software.
    - hu3 3y ago
      Their point is that with Apple you ARE forced to use proprietary software. They never said anything about forced to use iPhone.
- Steltek 3y ago
  If Apple was primarily a hardware company, I could run Android on an iPhone. Apple is about image and status. A walled ecosystem to maintain that image.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    There is this: https://projectsandcastle.org/ https://projectsandcastle.org/ But it’s a mobile device — swapping OS is not a trivial feat, not even on the android side. Especially if you care about security (pinephones for example don’t care at all). Their macs on the other hand allows safe booting of other OSs, see the Asahi project.

You can use Android completely without any proprietary Google stuff. You can't do the same with iOS.

by tazjin 3y ago

You can use Android completely without any proprietary Google stuff. You can't do the same with iOS.

wkat4242 3y ago

True this is exactly what I do and why Android can actually be better and more open than iOS.

drcongo 3y ago

I use iOS without any proprietary Google stuff, so you absolutely can.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
doix 3y ago
Ha! This joke is straight out of radio Yerevan[0]: > Radio Yerevan was asked: "Is it true that there is freedom of speech in the USSR (in some versions, Russia), just like in the USA?" Radio Yerevan answered: "In principle, yes. In the USA, you can stand in front of the White House and yell, “Down with Reagan!”, and you will not be punished. Equally, you can also stand in the Red Square in Moscow and yell, “Down with Reagan!”, and you will not be punished." [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Yerevan_jokes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Yerevan_jokes
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  We had a different joke: "America is so free, that I piss in front of Bush as he's passing by me." "It's the same in Russia. I also piss when Putin passes by me. Except I don't take it out of my pants."
wkat4242 3y ago
Now try using it without any proprietary Apple stuff :)

mrweasel 3y ago

A few weeks ago there was an article about Microsoft, Bing and Edge and their tracking of users, and it struck me that if Microsoft cared about mobile at this point, they are in a pretty good position to push a de-Google Android. Microsoft has all the expertise in partnering with vendors and getting them to ship their operating systems, they have a rough idea about how to run an app store and they have access to developer. A de-Google, privacy focused Microsoft Android, with a Microsoft store, the ability to run native Android apps and perhaps .Net application, pushed by Microsoft sales and vendor channel seems pretty interesting to me. But Microsoft doesn't care about neither privacy, nor mobile and practically no phone manufacturers really care to ship anything but Android at this point.

xethos 3y ago
> practically no phone manufacturers really care to ship anything but Android at this point I sure as shit can't blame them - for a decade, Google tied Google Mobile Services (including things like Google Maps and the Play Store) to shipping Google's Android exclusively. If OEMs wanted to fork Android and drop Google for Microsoft, they'd (up until at least 2018) lose their license to GMS for all handsets sold. That changed in 2018 [0], when Google were told by the EU they would "... also need to stop preventing phone makers from using forked versions of Android" (from [0]). I'm sure Google wouldn't pull any other licensing tricks to keep Microsoft or Huawei from making a competitive fork of Android now though! /s [0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-eu-fine-antitrust https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-e...
- tazjin 3y ago
  Huawei has a competitive fork of Android, but it's not interested in the West anymore, so it's not going to compete on the US market.
  - xethos 3y ago
    > it's not interested in the West anymore Respectfully, I'm not sure it was entirely Huawei (the company)'s decision. Being a major multi-national from mainland China, calling them "an arm of the CCP" isn't really fair, but neither is it entirely false. More to the point - I tried to avoid being misleading; the arm-twisting (we know of) ended in 2018. But between the precedent, and the dozen other proprietary Google frameworks and legal agreements that could be serviced to this end in confidential OEM deals, I'm completely unsurprised nobody else has really stepped up.

kaba0 3y ago

Apple is primarily a hardware company. Their ad business is successful in a basic-ass, privacy-friendly way, because to show ads on their platform, you have to pay apple, no competitors there. Google literally lives from ads, this is just not a comparison made in good-faith.

tazjin 3y ago
It is a comparison made in good faith. I'm sick and tired of being forced to use proprietary software, which means being forced to endure bugs I can't fix, and while it's not feasible to live a modern life Stallman-style, you can already get pretty far. Apple is the antithesis of this. One company shows up and makes all decisions for you, and you have no recourse, and that's it. If you don't like it, sucks to be you, go buy something else (I did).
- threeseed 3y ago
  No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone and no one is forcing you to use proprietary software.
  - hu3 3y ago
    Their point is that with Apple you ARE forced to use proprietary software. They never said anything about forced to use iPhone.
Steltek 3y ago
If Apple was primarily a hardware company, I could run Android on an iPhone. Apple is about image and status. A walled ecosystem to maintain that image.
- kaba0 3y ago
  There is this: https://projectsandcastle.org/ https://projectsandcastle.org/ But it’s a mobile device — swapping OS is not a trivial feat, not even on the android side. Especially if you care about security (pinephones for example don’t care at all). Their macs on the other hand allows safe booting of other OSs, see the Asahi project.