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Born in a bomb shelter
- cutler 3y ago[flagged]
- yonisto 3y ago[flagged]
- quonn 3y ago[flagged]
- milkshakes 3y agohow do you accidentally bomb a refugee camp? twice?
- efrank3 3y agoyou accidentally kill civilians trying to hit a military target
- isilofi 3y agoYou may even kill civilians on purpose to hit a military target, if on balance the military objective justifies the civilian loss of life.
- CoastalCoder 3y agoTragic but true. I hate war.
- mschuster91 3y agoThe fact that there were military installations below the "refugee camp" (which actually is a legit, permanent city, not a tent city as the name suggests) places the war crime on Hamas - it is forbidden under international law to place military targets near civilian installations, and yet Hamas keeps doing this all over again and then goes crying about war crimes.
- _xivi 3y ago> and then goes crying about war crimes So your strategy is just to wipe the entire place? Interesting, do you have a court system in your country or do you follow similar strategy in internal affairs?
- Alghranokk 3y agoI can't speak for everyone, but in my country the military tries not to create legitimate military targets in the middle of our cities, so it's not really something we've had to deal with.
- oneshtein 3y agoGaza strip is 41 km x ~9 km. How big is your city?
- andreiii 3y agothat's a big size actually. and let's not pretend they're doing due to lack of space. you don't put your HQ under the biggest hospital due to lack of space. you don't stash your rockets under a school due to lack of space. they know exactly what they're doing and civilian casualities is just another weapon in this conflict. for one side at least.
- ClumsyPilot 3y agoThats tiny if you also have to farm land for food. Which they do, they can't just build over all of it. No doubt Hamas uses human shields, but there are also accounts going back decades of IDF targetting aid workers, journalists and civilians On Purpose.
- dralley 3y agoBut we've already established we're talking about underground facilities. They're largely underground in the city as well. I don't see what the need to farm has to do with anything.
- andreiii 3y agowhy are those people called refugees 3 generations later and their proper neighbourhood a refugee camp? that's also an issue... the fact that they're use just in a political game by either Arab countries or their own leadership.
- vixen99 3y agoWe are told that the instructions for executing 10/7 were quite specific. Has a convincing reason been given for why on earth anyone, whatever their final objective, would want to proceed in that way? And what did they think the result would be? Appalling civilian atrocities abound in history (Dresden & Hiroshima to pick from an immensely long list) but the morality of these actions aside, they had a definite purpose. Whence the purpose in 10/7? Are we seeing the desired result now?
- 0x_rs 3y agoThe story below was on purpose too, just like hundreds more you can find online. And it's been going on for decades. What point is there in trying to one-up OP? And your usage of "by accident" in this context is loathsome, there is nothing accidental about it. >Israeli settlers in Palestine used petrol to set fire to Palestinian homes in the village of Duma on Friday, burning to death 18-month Ali Dawabsheh and critically wounding and maiming four members of his family. https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/brand-israel-pretends-burning-palestinian-baby-act-extremists https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/brand-israel-pretends-...
- quonn 3y agoNobody is defending the settlers. Nobody. The settlers are a great injustice. That being said, part of the truth is acknowledging that Israel removed their settlers from Gaza and the situation became worse. There is, unfortunately, no reason to believe that any other concessions will make a difference either. The incident you mentioned is in the West Bank of all places. It is almost like arguing for Pakistan due to an incident in Bangladesh. Israel may well have toppled Bibi and his far-right policies but Hamas had different plans.
- efrank3 3y agoimagine living under a terrorist organization that spent your bomb shelter money on antagonizing its militant neighbor
- _xivi 3y agoAre you trying to justify killing babies and wiping entire families, because their leaders attacked? WTF That's more than barbaric
- whearyou 3y agoNo, he’s justifying killing the monsters who go out to murder and wipe out families, then put other families deliberately in the line of fire to try and get the opportunity to do it over again
- _xivi 3y agoSo you just kill the entire neighborhood? Ok And after you killed thousands of kids and families because you're targeting the terrorists, what's the status right now? Did you wipe the terrorists? What is the "good" outcome? This results of this barbaric strategy don't look good from any angle. Is there a problem with the intelligence? It's been a month I think
- whearyou 3y agoYou do your best to kill as few people outside the terrorists as possible, accepting that because any military is not all-powerful and the terrorists are incentivized to and do put civilians in the line of fire, you will not get it 100% right and civilians will be killed unintentionally. It's the least bad of a set of terrible options.
- arkey 3y agoNot even that, he's just presenting the other side of the scenario, in a probably honest attempt to balance the perspective so one-sidedly presented by the flamewar, pre-digested parent comment.
- karamanolev 3y agoThe topic of one's own hardships vs other people's hardships is frequently on my mind. My stance is that "your biggest problems are your biggest problems". For most people, there will always be someone else with bigger problems and that's not a good reason to invalidate yours or to somehow expect you to feel better about it. I think of them when it feels like times are tough. The pandemic. The cost of living crisis. Job loss. It's tough. But it's nothing. Not really. Not in comparison to the circumstances some people find themselves in. Not in comparison to the circumstances other people make it through. Imagine being born in a bomb shelter. Imagine giving birth in a bomb shelter." As tragic as it is, yes, there's probably someone worse off than that. Does that make this tragedy any smaller? I don't think so. Especially the part "But it's nothing" is so dismissive, I can't really get behind it.
- tmjdev 3y ago"Your current suffering is small because somebody else suffered more." Or, more commonly, "You think you have it hard? I know a guy who went through XYZ." Sometimes people need perspective when they feel times are tough, other times they just need sympathy.
- giantrobot 3y ago> Especially the part "But it's nothing" is so dismissive, I can't really get behind it. Yeah that's bullshit. Some poor bastard has it worse than you. That doesn't mean your problems aren't real and you don't have to deal with them. It's good to try to keep perspective on your problems but that doesn't mean you need to just dismiss them.
- arkey 3y agoI agree with you. For one, job loss can be pretty dramatic, nothing to joke about or disregard. However, for less extreme situations I find this can be helpful. From a recent personal experience I felt that acknowledging the potentiality of being far worse, and thinking about the situations of people who actually are, it helped putting things into perspective and helped me deal with a personal "difficulty".
- birracerveza 3y ago
- avgcorrection 3y agoThe first thing/person I thought of was Peter Daou. > He had an incredibly tough start. But at 6'4" he had a leg up.
- WentFullRetard 3y ago[dead]
- callumpbirch 3y agoOP here. Thanks everyone for your reflections on this. I must admit, I'm not sure whether the point I made was a good one. I wanted to write what I know of my grandads story but didn't plan a specific point - this just came out. So probably a reflection of how I was feeling at the time and something deeper. But whatever the case, I'm pleased it led to some healthy debate, and I'm going to reflect on what I can really draw from his story. Thanks again.
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- egeozcan 3y agoYou and your partner might find yourselves giving birth in a bomb shelter. We tread on thin ice daily, an ice sheet formed atop the worst of human experiences—brutality, war, and disaster. Daily, we witness how this fragile ice could crack at any moment. The war in Ukraine saw potentially 75,000 lives lost in Mariupol alone. The Palestine-Israel conflict escalates with over 1,500 civilian fatalities. Turkey's earthquake claimed 50,000 lives, upending millions more. Here I am in central Germany, grumbling about waiting an hour for a doctor when my son had a fever. I won't stop complaining—that's not the point. The point is to recognize the fragility of our peace and figure out how to reinforce it. What are we doing to prevent these tragedies? And if they do happen, how do we lessen their blow? Let's approach it like Silicon Valley would with a datacenter outage: You don't just thank your stars it didn't blow up. You dissect the issue and outline measures to prevent a recurrence.
- alkhatib 3y agoOver the past month Israel killed more than 9000 Palestinian Civilians 3500 of them Palestinian children If you want to perform a root cause analysis then make sure you have the correct data.
- tristor 3y agoAnd by "correct" data, you mean data that comes from Hamas and is politically tinged, rather than data that comes from the numerous non-aligned/independent sources? Don't think what you're doing isn't transparent to anyone who has spent even a modicum of time becoming informed on the topic.
- alkhatib 3y agoThe photos and videos of 3500 dead Palestinian children speak for themselves. Anyone who is interested in the truth and “has spent even a modicum of time” would condemn the killing of innocent children and demand an end to their continued killing and suffering.
- 3y ago