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Well, rice is also among the most environmentally damaging plants you can eat, so I suppose there's multiple arguments to be made in favor of avoiding it. Cutt

Well, rice is also among the most environmentally damaging plants you can eat, so I suppose there's multiple arguments to be made in favor of avoiding it. Cutting drinkable calories and all added sugars is the 20% of effort that gives you 80% of the effect here. As far as going to 100% goes, cutting carbohydrates altogether has also become enough of a trend ("no-carb") that you can find lots of information on how to do it, if you feel like you need to do it. However, those diets usually require you to eat a lot of meat, which is unhealthy for a host of other reasons, and if you're stringent about it, they would also require you to cut beneficial foods like nuts, which is likewise bad.

peteforde 3y ago
I appreciate this reply as thoughtful and reasonable, with the powerful exception being the inclusion of "all added sugars". I think we all get that if you can cut drinkable calories, you should because you will be far better off. However, ditching sugar (which is an addictive poison; we get it) is the most decisively non-trivial thing on the list. It's in freaking everything. Trust me, I can give up apples and pears tomorrow if you promise to say nice things about me. But pursuing a completely sugar-free diet is a dramatic undertaking. It requires you to drastically alter everything you probably eat.
- indigo945 3y ago
  This may be different in the US, where, from my understand, people often eat sweetened breads and so on, but at least here in Europe, added sugars are really not that hard to avoid. (Well, at least to a 99% level. For me, cutting soy sauce, which does contain added sugar, would be very uncomfortable. Other than that, I honestly don't see the huge issue - of course it would be annoying when eating out, but that's about it.)
sfjailbird 3y ago
> those diets usually require you to eat a lot of meat You can substitute meat for eggs, to a large extent. No more expensive, easy to prepare, arguably tasty, ethical (as far as OP's arguments), and a complete protein source that rivals meat. Traditional diet advice would caution about cholesterol, but "those diets" pretty much disregard those concerns, with pretty good science behind it.
- tpush 3y ago
  > [...] No more expensive, easy to prepare, arguably tasty, ethical (as far as OP's arguments), [...] Commercial egg farming is anything but ethical.
  - sfjailbird 3y ago
    Where I live, you do have a choice of what kind of eggs to buy, free range, natural feed, etc.
    - tpush 3y ago
      Chicken bred for laying eggs suffer immensely during their entire (short) lifetime. The effect of breeding these chickens for the sole purpose of laying as many eggs as possible results in practically every chicken having multiple broken bones. This affects chickens regardless of them being free range, organic or whatever.
      - sfjailbird 3y ago
        I'm sure that's true in many places, but not all. I know people who supply eggs that are sold in grocery stores. Their hens are regular hens that live normal hen lives. Regurlar hens are very prolific egg layers anyway. The producer is also part of a strict certification program that ensures that customers know what they get.
        tpush 3y ago
        There are no regular hens anymore! That's kinda the point. Every supermarket supplying hen is producing far more eggs than their non purpose-bred ancestors would. The broken bones are not even visible, their behavior change is very subtle. You'd have to x-ray the hens to see the damage. Here [0] is a report from Switzerland (in German) saying that 97% of egg laying hens in Switzerland have on average 3 broken bones, some even as much as 11. Ethical eg farming using current hen races is simply impossible. [0] https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/wirtschaft/neue-studie-roentgenbilder-mit-schock-resultat-97-prozent-aller-legehennen-haben-ein-gebrochenes-brustbein-ld.2254714 https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/wirtschaft/neue-studie-roentg...
davedx 3y ago
> rice is also among the most environmentally damaging plants you can eat I didn't know this, can you provide evidence?
- indigo945 3y ago
  The problem is that rice is usually grown in wet rice agriculture, where the paddy is flooded to prevent weeds from growing. Microbes in the water will decompose decaying plant matter, producing methane, a potent greenhouse gas [1]. [1]: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/how-rice-is-hurting-the-planet/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/how-rice-is-hurting-t...

peteforde 3y ago

I appreciate this reply as thoughtful and reasonable, with the powerful exception being the inclusion of "all added sugars". I think we all get that if you can cut drinkable calories, you should because you will be far better off. However, ditching sugar (which is an addictive poison; we get it) is the most decisively non-trivial thing on the list. It's in freaking everything. Trust me, I can give up apples and pears tomorrow if you promise to say nice things about me. But pursuing a completely sugar-free diet is a dramatic undertaking. It requires you to drastically alter everything you probably eat.

indigo945 3y ago
This may be different in the US, where, from my understand, people often eat sweetened breads and so on, but at least here in Europe, added sugars are really not that hard to avoid. (Well, at least to a 99% level. For me, cutting soy sauce, which does contain added sugar, would be very uncomfortable. Other than that, I honestly don't see the huge issue - of course it would be annoying when eating out, but that's about it.)

sfjailbird 3y ago

> those diets usually require you to eat a lot of meat You can substitute meat for eggs, to a large extent. No more expensive, easy to prepare, arguably tasty, ethical (as far as OP's arguments), and a complete protein source that rivals meat. Traditional diet advice would caution about cholesterol, but "those diets" pretty much disregard those concerns, with pretty good science behind it.

tpush 3y ago
> [...] No more expensive, easy to prepare, arguably tasty, ethical (as far as OP's arguments), [...] Commercial egg farming is anything but ethical.
- sfjailbird 3y ago
  Where I live, you do have a choice of what kind of eggs to buy, free range, natural feed, etc.
  - tpush 3y ago
    Chicken bred for laying eggs suffer immensely during their entire (short) lifetime. The effect of breeding these chickens for the sole purpose of laying as many eggs as possible results in practically every chicken having multiple broken bones. This affects chickens regardless of them being free range, organic or whatever.
    - sfjailbird 3y ago
      I'm sure that's true in many places, but not all. I know people who supply eggs that are sold in grocery stores. Their hens are regular hens that live normal hen lives. Regurlar hens are very prolific egg layers anyway. The producer is also part of a strict certification program that ensures that customers know what they get.
      - tpush 3y ago
        There are no regular hens anymore! That's kinda the point. Every supermarket supplying hen is producing far more eggs than their non purpose-bred ancestors would. The broken bones are not even visible, their behavior change is very subtle. You'd have to x-ray the hens to see the damage. Here [0] is a report from Switzerland (in German) saying that 97% of egg laying hens in Switzerland have on average 3 broken bones, some even as much as 11. Ethical eg farming using current hen races is simply impossible. [0] https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/wirtschaft/neue-studie-roentgenbilder-mit-schock-resultat-97-prozent-aller-legehennen-haben-ein-gebrochenes-brustbein-ld.2254714 https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/wirtschaft/neue-studie-roentg...

davedx 3y ago

> rice is also among the most environmentally damaging plants you can eat I didn't know this, can you provide evidence?

indigo945 3y ago
The problem is that rice is usually grown in wet rice agriculture, where the paddy is flooded to prevent weeds from growing. Microbes in the water will decompose decaying plant matter, producing methane, a potent greenhouse gas [1]. [1]: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/how-rice-is-hurting-the-planet/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/how-rice-is-hurting-t...