22 ms·

Apple is its own only competitor in the desktop Silicon race. Unbelievable

keyle 3y ago
Let's not forget we're also talking pretty much fanless and a lot less power consumption. I remember reading "why ARM design will rule" (simpler design) and we're seeing it in the flesh. I keep hoping to see another manufacturer, e.g. Lenovo making their own ARM machine for thinkpads... It would be incredibly popular I feel. But most likely will never happen.
- pinkgolem 3y ago
  I mean, they did... But no one cracked x32 on arm as good as apple, the performance under windows is horrible...
  - keyle 3y ago
    Is it, good to know. I was hoping to get a ARM linux laptop soon...
- xhdjcic 3y ago
  Arent there heaps of ARM laptops out there? I thought there has been for a while.
- tester756 3y ago
  ISA does not imply performance characteristics. ARM is not some magic trick https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-matter/ https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
SllX 3y ago
It's not just desktops: https://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks https://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks
KeplerBoy 3y ago
In the mobile space, sure, but not in the desktop space. Their chips are good, no doubt, but AMD and Intel are not sleeping at the wheel. Even if Apple chips were available as CPUs and Motherboards with full Windows and Linux support, they wouldn't be the obvious choice for all use cases. The M2 Ultra is incredible, but there are workloads where it stands no chance against a threadripper.
troupo 3y ago
They don't really have a solution for desktop. These are still mobile/laptop chips. Don't get me wrong: these are insanely brilliant paradigm-changing chips that are more than enough for the majority of people. However, despite all the marketing it still remains to be seen whether they can transition into desktop/workstation chips with these. Especially at a reasonable price.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  desktop/workstation is a niche market nowadays.
  - xhdjcic 3y ago
    [dead]
  - oyashirochama 3y ago
    Not for AAA, 4k 120 fps+. Desktop is the requirement not the exception.
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      Yes but AAA desktop game machines is a niche market, a profitable one maybe but still very small in numbers.
      - seec 3y ago
        One that millions of people enjoy, and more are getting into every year passing. Young people who were raised with already decent graphics will not downgrade to 10 years older graphic quality and will thus buy decent gaming PC. It is actually the market that Apple has chosen that is more niche. About 80% of Mac sales are laptops (a lot of which are status symbol/ rich executive computer type) so it really does not leave a lot of customers that are into computers. I believe they made that choice for both historical reasons and trying to maximize profits. But I think they are wrong, and it will bite them eventually. There is no reason a powerful desktop couldn't be just as good at video editing. Actually, the gaming desktops tend to be pretty good at video production too, it just does not have the software Apple has...
diffeomorphism 3y ago
Eh, the comparison with current AMD chips seems rather close efficiency-wise and even apple does not claim to have better performance: https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-9-7940HS-analysis-Zen4-Phoenix-is-ideally-as-efficient-as-Apple.713395.0.html#toc-6 https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-9-7940HS-analysis-Ze... Still very, very nice chips, but "only competitor" is far removed from reality. Also, mac mini with m2 pro, 32gb of ram and 1TB of storage is 2500€; the above mentioned amd one is 770€. So "better at just 3-4 times the price"... color me highly unimpressed.
Toutouxc 3y ago
Are you sure that you're up to speed with the latest developments? The M1 was a pretty good wake-up call, yes, but it's not like AMD are Intel are standing still, there are now very nice chips available from all manufacturers.
tester756 3y ago
What, how did you draw that conclusion? https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/multicore https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/multicore

Let's not forget we're also talking pretty much fanless and a lot less power consumption. I remember reading "why ARM design will rule" (simpler design) and we're seeing it in the flesh. I keep hoping to see another manufacturer, e.g. Lenovo making their own ARM machine for thinkpads... It would be incredibly popular I feel. But most likely will never happen.

pinkgolem 3y ago
I mean, they did... But no one cracked x32 on arm as good as apple, the performance under windows is horrible...
- keyle 3y ago
  Is it, good to know. I was hoping to get a ARM linux laptop soon...
xhdjcic 3y ago
Arent there heaps of ARM laptops out there? I thought there has been for a while.
tester756 3y ago
ISA does not imply performance characteristics. ARM is not some magic trick https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-matter/ https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

SllX 3y ago

It's not just desktops: https://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks https://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks

KeplerBoy 3y ago

In the mobile space, sure, but not in the desktop space. Their chips are good, no doubt, but AMD and Intel are not sleeping at the wheel. Even if Apple chips were available as CPUs and Motherboards with full Windows and Linux support, they wouldn't be the obvious choice for all use cases. The M2 Ultra is incredible, but there are workloads where it stands no chance against a threadripper.

troupo 3y ago

They don't really have a solution for desktop. These are still mobile/laptop chips. Don't get me wrong: these are insanely brilliant paradigm-changing chips that are more than enough for the majority of people. However, despite all the marketing it still remains to be seen whether they can transition into desktop/workstation chips with these. Especially at a reasonable price.

prmoustache 3y ago
desktop/workstation is a niche market nowadays.
- xhdjcic 3y ago
  [dead]
- oyashirochama 3y ago
  Not for AAA, 4k 120 fps+. Desktop is the requirement not the exception.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    Yes but AAA desktop game machines is a niche market, a profitable one maybe but still very small in numbers.
    - seec 3y ago
      One that millions of people enjoy, and more are getting into every year passing. Young people who were raised with already decent graphics will not downgrade to 10 years older graphic quality and will thus buy decent gaming PC. It is actually the market that Apple has chosen that is more niche. About 80% of Mac sales are laptops (a lot of which are status symbol/ rich executive computer type) so it really does not leave a lot of customers that are into computers. I believe they made that choice for both historical reasons and trying to maximize profits. But I think they are wrong, and it will bite them eventually. There is no reason a powerful desktop couldn't be just as good at video editing. Actually, the gaming desktops tend to be pretty good at video production too, it just does not have the software Apple has...

diffeomorphism 3y ago

Eh, the comparison with current AMD chips seems rather close efficiency-wise and even apple does not claim to have better performance: https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-9-7940HS-analysis-Zen4-Phoenix-is-ideally-as-efficient-as-Apple.713395.0.html#toc-6 https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-9-7940HS-analysis-Ze... Still very, very nice chips, but "only competitor" is far removed from reality. Also, mac mini with m2 pro, 32gb of ram and 1TB of storage is 2500€; the above mentioned amd one is 770€. So "better at just 3-4 times the price"... color me highly unimpressed.

Toutouxc 3y ago

Are you sure that you're up to speed with the latest developments? The M1 was a pretty good wake-up call, yes, but it's not like AMD are Intel are standing still, there are now very nice chips available from all manufacturers.

tester756 3y ago

What, how did you draw that conclusion? https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/multicore https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/multicore