4 ms·

Abundance for who? Our entire specie could live comfortably with goodies the last roman emperor wouldn't even have dreamed of, just with our current means of pr

by sgu999 3y ago

Abundance for who? Our entire specie could live comfortably with goodies the last roman emperor wouldn't even have dreamed of, just with our current means of production. Yet we still have people not able to feed their children, dying of exhaustion at work or killing each other for land.

shreyshnaccount 3y ago
You've got the causality the other way round. We are in an apparent state of abundance partly because of exploitative practices
- shreyshnaccount 3y ago
  (shit, not you, the gp)
  - sgu999 3y ago
    I'll reply anyway ;D We didn't manage to have an apparent state of abundance with slavery, which is arguably the finest of our exploitive practices. We do manage to have a state of abundance because of the ubiquity of cheap sources of energy, oil in particular. I'm deeply convinced that current exploitive practices are a consequence of inequalities, no resources scarcity.
- Joeri 3y ago
  In general I think you’re right. Global GDP per capita is at $13K which is probably not enough to give everyone a western lifestyle if inequalities were stripped away. But specifically for food the situation is different. There’s so much food that much of it gets thrown away, instead of getting to the hungry in time. It’s an allocation and efficiency problem.
  - sgu999 3y ago
    I don't think GDP per capita is meaningful for discussing this, precisely because of the "allocation and efficiency problem" you pointed. It's convenient to measure whether food production would theoretically be enough: take the quantities an adult need, count the throughput of optimal production of proteins, carbs etc. The cost however is meaningless because most of what we spend on is transport, marketing, storage, packaging, shelving, etc. that's what we count when we say that a household spends x% on food. We can do the same for the volume of T-shirts, sqm of housing, etc.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Global median income is AT MOST $3,000 PPP (at 2011 dollars) [0]. This is roughly comparable to Cambodia or Myanmar in 2011. The world is still extremely poor. [0] - https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/936001635880885713/pdf/Poverty-Median-Incomes-and-Inequality-in-2021-A-Diverging-Recovery.pdf https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/9360016358808857...

by sgu999 3y ago

shreyshnaccount 3y ago

You've got the causality the other way round. We are in an apparent state of abundance partly because of exploitative practices

shreyshnaccount 3y ago
(shit, not you, the gp)
- sgu999 3y ago
  I'll reply anyway ;D We didn't manage to have an apparent state of abundance with slavery, which is arguably the finest of our exploitive practices. We do manage to have a state of abundance because of the ubiquity of cheap sources of energy, oil in particular. I'm deeply convinced that current exploitive practices are a consequence of inequalities, no resources scarcity.
Joeri 3y ago
In general I think you’re right. Global GDP per capita is at $13K which is probably not enough to give everyone a western lifestyle if inequalities were stripped away. But specifically for food the situation is different. There’s so much food that much of it gets thrown away, instead of getting to the hungry in time. It’s an allocation and efficiency problem.
- sgu999 3y ago
  I don't think GDP per capita is meaningful for discussing this, precisely because of the "allocation and efficiency problem" you pointed. It's convenient to measure whether food production would theoretically be enough: take the quantities an adult need, count the throughput of optimal production of proteins, carbs etc. The cost however is meaningless because most of what we spend on is transport, marketing, storage, packaging, shelving, etc. that's what we count when we say that a household spends x% on food. We can do the same for the volume of T-shirts, sqm of housing, etc.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Global median income is AT MOST $3,000 PPP (at 2011 dollars) [0]. This is roughly comparable to Cambodia or Myanmar in 2011. The world is still extremely poor. [0] - https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/936001635880885713/pdf/Poverty-Median-Incomes-and-Inequality-in-2021-A-Diverging-Recovery.pdf https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/9360016358808857...