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You fix the metrics. You can't argue that metrics should be the be-all and end-all of everything, and a teachers' intuition should count for nothing, when ther

by jbooth 15y ago

You fix the metrics. You can't argue that metrics should be the be-all and end-all of everything, and a teachers' intuition should count for nothing, when there are all these problems with the metrics we have. Here's a good story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/creative--motivating-and-fired/2012/02/04/gIQAwzZpvR_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/creative--moti... This teacher was by all accounts a phenomenal teacher, but she was fired because her batch of kids came from a school that had suspiciously high scores the year before, and is currently under investigation for cheating. She didn't maintain that high level of scores so she was fired. Our police system is dominated by metrics and we got The Wire as a result. In education, you hear about cheating scandals in DC, good teachers being fired due to unfortunate statistical conflagrances.. if you're gonna advocate turning your brain off and delegating all decision-making to your metrics, they have to be good.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
The next time you hire a freelancer, why don't you use his intuition about his own performance rather than measuring whether he actually built what you wanted him to build? ...good teachers being fired due to unfortunate statistical conflagrances.. How do you know they were good? Because they said so, and one of their cronies agreed? This link is relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal-agent_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal-agent_problem I'll note that you want to scrap objective metrics because they have some problems, but you don't seem to realize "teachers' intuition" also has problems. One of the biggest is comparability - how I can compare the intuition of teacher A with the intuition of teacher B? With standardized tests, the answer is simple arithmetic.
- jbooth 15y ago
  The teacher in question was given high marks on review by all her superiors, not just herself. On a freelancer's results, I'm not applying a standardized test to their results so yeah, I am in fact using my intuition an brain about what they built. Metrics are fine, they just shouldn't be fetishized, and we shouldn't allow them to make us fire good teachers. They also shouldn't dominate what's taught to the extent they do. Nation of multiple choice test-takers? That's what we want out of our school system?
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    The teacher in question was given high marks on review by all her superiors, not just herself. If the students didn't perform, but her superiors liked her, why are you assuming the superiors know what they are talking about? Again, how can I compare the opinions of heterogeneous superiors, and why do you believe the opinions are correct and objective metrics are wrong? Opinions fail on many counts - comparability and objectivity being the most obvious. Why do you fetishize opinion, and assert it as being more accurate than objective metrics? They also shouldn't dominate what's taught to the extent they do. All standardized tests do is measure whether a school is meeting their goals. If standardized tests are preventing schools from ignoring their goals and teaching whatever they feel like (or perhaps nothing at all), why is that a bad thing?
    - aestetix 15y ago
      Why do you trust a standard the federal government has set over what a teacher says? After all, the teachers are the ones who have hands on experience with how the students are actually doing. Further, standardized tests don't really measure much, except for how well student can take tests and regurgitate information.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
- djiddish98 15y ago
  Teaching is more akin to client-contractor-subcontractor analogy. Client - parents Contractor - admin Sub - teacher Now imagine that both the client and the sub contractor are influential in the final product (student ability). How do you isolate an incident like divorce from the overall performance measurement of the teacher?

by jbooth 15y ago

yummyfajitas 15y ago

The next time you hire a freelancer, why don't you use his intuition about his own performance rather than measuring whether he actually built what you wanted him to build? ...good teachers being fired due to unfortunate statistical conflagrances.. How do you know they were good? Because they said so, and one of their cronies agreed? This link is relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal-agent_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal-agent_problem I'll note that you want to scrap objective metrics because they have some problems, but you don't seem to realize "teachers' intuition" also has problems. One of the biggest is comparability - how I can compare the intuition of teacher A with the intuition of teacher B? With standardized tests, the answer is simple arithmetic.

jbooth 15y ago
The teacher in question was given high marks on review by all her superiors, not just herself. On a freelancer's results, I'm not applying a standardized test to their results so yeah, I am in fact using my intuition an brain about what they built. Metrics are fine, they just shouldn't be fetishized, and we shouldn't allow them to make us fire good teachers. They also shouldn't dominate what's taught to the extent they do. Nation of multiple choice test-takers? That's what we want out of our school system?
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  The teacher in question was given high marks on review by all her superiors, not just herself. If the students didn't perform, but her superiors liked her, why are you assuming the superiors know what they are talking about? Again, how can I compare the opinions of heterogeneous superiors, and why do you believe the opinions are correct and objective metrics are wrong? Opinions fail on many counts - comparability and objectivity being the most obvious. Why do you fetishize opinion, and assert it as being more accurate than objective metrics? They also shouldn't dominate what's taught to the extent they do. All standardized tests do is measure whether a school is meeting their goals. If standardized tests are preventing schools from ignoring their goals and teaching whatever they feel like (or perhaps nothing at all), why is that a bad thing?
  - aestetix 15y ago
    Why do you trust a standard the federal government has set over what a teacher says? After all, the teachers are the ones who have hands on experience with how the students are actually doing. Further, standardized tests don't really measure much, except for how well student can take tests and regurgitate information.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
djiddish98 15y ago
Teaching is more akin to client-contractor-subcontractor analogy. Client - parents Contractor - admin Sub - teacher Now imagine that both the client and the sub contractor are influential in the final product (student ability). How do you isolate an incident like divorce from the overall performance measurement of the teacher?