6 ms·

This doesn't mention accumulation at all. My understanding is that these accumulate in your body and are fairly difficult to get rid of. From that perspective

by rendaw 3y ago

This doesn't mention accumulation at all. My understanding is that these accumulate in your body and are fairly difficult to get rid of. From that perspective Ars' arguments about allowed daily intake levels don't make much sense. If they accumulate, you'll get 1000x the amount by eating a piece every day for 3 years.

brigandish 3y ago
On the other hand, eating a piece every day for 3 years will likely bring other health effects (primarily, obesity and diabetes) that will ruin that person's life before the metals get them, not that they should ignore the metals, mind.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Dark chocolate is low in sugar and carbs, what you appear to be concerned with.
  - brigandish 3y ago
    From the linked article: > CR tested 48 chocolate products in various categories—from milk chocolate bars to brownie mixes, chocolate chips, and hot chocolate
- atleastoptimal 3y ago
  > One piece of chocolate a day will ruin someone's life what?
  - brigandish 3y ago
    Please, if you're going to quote someone, use the actual words they used.
- staplers 3y ago
  Eating a piece of chocolate a day will make you obese? Lol
  - brigandish 3y ago
    As straw men go, it's badly cut. Firstly, do you think the people eating chocolate every day are less or more likely to be obese than those who do not eat chocolate every day? Secondly, why would that alone make one obese? It's the correlation between a single data point and an outcome that suggests other behaviours which would contribute are also present (hence the first question).
    - staplers 3y ago
      Depends on the chocolate. Darker chocolates in small amounts per day can positively affect health.
      - brigandish 3y ago
        Do you always follow up a straw man with cherry picking and hope it to be persuasive? The vast amount of chocolate bought and consumed in every major economy is not dark, nor, if the figures are to be believed, are they being eaten in small amounts. Cadbury, Hershey et al are doing fine.
        staplers 3y ago
        What is your point? Whether one eats a lot or a little chocolate, it should still be safe to eat.
        brigandish 3y ago
        I covered the calories part of safe here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38125905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38125905
- batch12 3y ago
  Eating a piece of chocolate every day is not going to give someone obesity and diabetes.
  - fsckboy 3y ago
    adding one piece a day per person to the national diet would probably have a dramatic effect, especially since that increase will be a bell curve too, with half consuming more. Depends how you word these Q&As. Each individual has varying susceptibility to diabetes and heavy metal poisoning. You can't apply population statistics to individuals, except that population effects will find certain individuals, and except to say "more is worse, less is better" if it's something harmful.
    - batch12 3y ago
      You moved the goalposts from a piece a day to a bell curve of volume-- and added metal poisioning. No, a piece of chocolate a day would alone cause neither obesity nor diabetes.
      - fsckboy 3y ago
        it is false to say in the context of general advice for people without regard to where they stand diet and healthwise that a piece of candy a day won't cause them diabetes. If all people took that non-fact to heart and started eating a piece of candy a day that they weren't eating before, without changing the rest of their diet, then we would have more people with diabetes and other health conditions, all without moving any goalposts.
        batch12 3y ago
        No we wouldn't. If these hypothetical people are that close to the edge where 10 grams of sugar and 70 calories would do this, they'd develop the diseases anyway. So the number would be the same.
        3y ago
- WrongAssumption 3y ago
  We’re talking like 40 calories.
  - brigandish 3y ago
    Ignoring the fact that I wasn't thinking of the total extra calories of anyone eating a piece of chocolate (a piece being undefined in size anyway) to end at that piece of chocolate… The UK's top selling chocolate is Cadbury's Dairy Milk. It's 45 grams in total, and each of the 60 pieces is indeed 40 calories. Most people I know eat the whole thing, and those people are overweight, like the majority of the UK public, an obesity rate that is matched in many countries world wide. As of a couple of years ago, diabetes diagnoses have doubled in the last 15 years > that over 4.9 million people are currently living with diabetes in the UK, with 90 per cent of those with type 2 type 2 diabetes being the one that correlates, if not is caused by, obesity. Additionally: > 13.6m people are now at increased risk of type 2 diabetes in the UK Again, this is a world wide problem[1]. Just the other day I was listening to the Huberman Lab podcast about eye health and the expert pointed out that the upsurge in diabetes in the US and elsewhere was threatening eye health[2]. So, you may say it's only 40 calories but the data shows that people are getting fatter, because those eating a piece per day aren't only eating a piece per day, whether that's chocolate or other things. If it were just the extra 40 calories there wouldn't be a problem. [0] https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/diabetes-diagnoses-doubled-prevalence-2021 https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/diabetes-diagnoses... [1] https://www.worldobesity.org/resources/resource-library/covid-19-and-obesity-the-2021-atlas https://www.worldobesity.org/resources/resource-library/covi... [2] https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-jeffrey-goldberg-how-to-improve-your-eye-health-and-offset-vision-loss?timestamp=8042 https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-jeffrey-goldberg-how-...
- omeid2 3y ago
  Obesity and Diabetes aren't given just because you take sugar, it is the surplus that matters.
  - brigandish 3y ago
    That may be why I used the word likely in the statement, to avoid black and white conclusions.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  There is an inverse relationship between the level of metals and the total calories. Very dark chocolate would have much more heavy metals, whereas milk chocolate would be worse from a caloric perspective. So someone who eats a bit of 80% chocolate each day would not be consuming that many calories, compared to the amount of heavy metals. Someone who ate milk chocolate would get very little in the way of calories, but quite a bit more calories.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    Dark chocolate isn’t especially bad for you. Not that much sugar in it, really, if you stick to 80%+. The nutritional profile is a lot like peanut butter.. calories and fat yes, but gobs if protein.
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      Yes, though it seems that 80%+ is perhaps not so great from a heavy metals perspective...
- bruce511 3y ago
  My idea of a "piece" and yours may differ dramatically. Nevertheless I don't think one "piece" a day will bring on diabetes or obesity. Firstly, depending on the product and amount, you're looking at under 100 calories. Since daily requirements are something over 2000 calories per day the rest of your diet matters more. Diabetes is a complex disease caused by excessive insulin production. Sugar is a part of the causal chain, but not a direct cause. See https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2023/03/can-eating-too-much-sugar-cause-diabetes#:~:text=You%20may%20have%20wondered%20if,levels%20are%20consistently%20too%20high https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2023/03/can-eating.... Yes, the levels of metals are important. I presume their presence is caused by metal components in their manufacture. Which begs the question if there are other products in play here not just chocolate.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - brigandish 3y ago
    Why are you saying that I'm suggesting one piece of chocolate a day will bring on diabetes or obesity? You may as well say that I'm suggesting they only eat one piece of chocolate a day and will die of starvation as it would be just as justifiable a reading. No, eating chocolate every day (and in my mind I thought of the kind of chocolate confectionary one would buy in a corner shop) would suggest an unhealthy lifestyle in general and an inability to eat healthily, again, in general. > Sugar is a part of the causal chain, but not a direct cause. Again, why are you reading things that I did not state? I wrote "obesity and diabetes". Obesity is definitely a major risk factor, if not a direct cause of type 2 diabetes. The risk of it increases linearly with BMI. To think I suggested that eating one bar of chocolate alone would cause diabetes is absurd.
    - bruce511 3y ago
      Your follow up is perhaps more nuanced than your original post, and does a better job of explaining your thinking here. I simply took your original post as it was stated; >> On the other hand, eating a piece every day for 3 years will likely bring other health effects (primarily, obesity and diabetes) I appreciate you glorifying your original intent.
happytiger 3y ago
*What is this article?* This is a chocolate company PR plant article, which have been hitting the presses hard with this message. It is disaster management / emergency PR. They don’t want to discuss bioaccumulation of heavy metals because it would be very bad for business. It’s not new. And it’s especially bad for children so you can imagine what the chocolate industry worries about at night. *Isnt all food bad in excess of RDA?* There is a big difference between eating in an unhealthy way and selling a product that has known health effects that are especially egregious for kids, so don’t pay any kind to the other counterargument big chocolate likes to press: that any food in excess is unhealthy. It’s now wrong, but it’s a classic straw man argument (or a cake or cupcake argument really). So then “should we make cupcakes illegal then?” Well. Uh. Unfortunately: yes, if they contain large amounts of cadmium or any measurable amount of lead we absolutely should — no amount of lead in food is considered “safe” especially for kids.)). *You must hate chocolate.* I love chocolate. Why can’t we process this stuff out of it so we can enjoy it properly? Anyone an expert in heavy metals removal from food? Save chocolate please. The world needs you. *This is just one article on one piece of research.* A few earlier articles and research that bolsters the case: https://www.confectionerynews.com/Article/2015/02/16/Lead-and-cadmium-metals-in-chocolate-Hershey-and-Mars-face-lawsuit https://www.confectionerynews.com/Article/2015/02/16/Lead-an... https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/10y9yhe/ysk_as_you_sow_has_tested_chocolate_for_heavy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/10y9yhe/ysk_... https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/heavy-metals-found-in-popular-brands-of-dark-chocolate https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/heavy-metals-fou... https://time.com/6243073/heavy-metals-dark-chocolate-food/ https://time.com/6243073/heavy-metals-dark-chocolate-food/
- TylerE 3y ago
  There’s also a big difference between ethically sourced, tester boutique chocolate and Hersheys/Cadburys type swill that isn’t fit for the name.
  - gruez 3y ago
    What does ethical sourcing have to do with heavy metal poisoning?
tomtheelder 3y ago
It doesn't mention accumulation because that's already factored in. The levels they are talking about are a daily amount, not a single dosage.
kyriakos 3y ago
Theoretically if I was consuming 3 teaspoons per day (that's 17g approximately) wouldn't I be in danger even if the cadmium and lead levels are under the FDA levels?
ip26 3y ago
You accumulate when you can’t eliminate fast enough. Some sources indicate you can safely eliminate up to ~30mcg of cadmium per day. Many of these bars appear to have 10-12mcg. So, if you ate one bar daily, you would never accumulate. Four bars daily would be a different story.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  That’s cadmium. You don’t eliminate lead to the same degree.

by rendaw 3y ago

brigandish 3y ago

On the other hand, eating a piece every day for 3 years will likely bring other health effects (primarily, obesity and diabetes) that will ruin that person's life before the metals get them, not that they should ignore the metals, mind.

mixmastamyk 3y ago
Dark chocolate is low in sugar and carbs, what you appear to be concerned with.
- brigandish 3y ago
  From the linked article: > CR tested 48 chocolate products in various categories—from milk chocolate bars to brownie mixes, chocolate chips, and hot chocolate
atleastoptimal 3y ago
> One piece of chocolate a day will ruin someone's life what?
- brigandish 3y ago
  Please, if you're going to quote someone, use the actual words they used.
staplers 3y ago
Eating a piece of chocolate a day will make you obese? Lol
- brigandish 3y ago
  As straw men go, it's badly cut. Firstly, do you think the people eating chocolate every day are less or more likely to be obese than those who do not eat chocolate every day? Secondly, why would that alone make one obese? It's the correlation between a single data point and an outcome that suggests other behaviours which would contribute are also present (hence the first question).
  - staplers 3y ago
    Depends on the chocolate. Darker chocolates in small amounts per day can positively affect health.
    - brigandish 3y ago
      Do you always follow up a straw man with cherry picking and hope it to be persuasive? The vast amount of chocolate bought and consumed in every major economy is not dark, nor, if the figures are to be believed, are they being eaten in small amounts. Cadbury, Hershey et al are doing fine.
      - staplers 3y ago
        What is your point? Whether one eats a lot or a little chocolate, it should still be safe to eat.
        brigandish 3y ago
        I covered the calories part of safe here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38125905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38125905
batch12 3y ago
Eating a piece of chocolate every day is not going to give someone obesity and diabetes.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  adding one piece a day per person to the national diet would probably have a dramatic effect, especially since that increase will be a bell curve too, with half consuming more. Depends how you word these Q&As. Each individual has varying susceptibility to diabetes and heavy metal poisoning. You can't apply population statistics to individuals, except that population effects will find certain individuals, and except to say "more is worse, less is better" if it's something harmful.
  - batch12 3y ago
    You moved the goalposts from a piece a day to a bell curve of volume-- and added metal poisioning. No, a piece of chocolate a day would alone cause neither obesity nor diabetes.
    - fsckboy 3y ago
      it is false to say in the context of general advice for people without regard to where they stand diet and healthwise that a piece of candy a day won't cause them diabetes. If all people took that non-fact to heart and started eating a piece of candy a day that they weren't eating before, without changing the rest of their diet, then we would have more people with diabetes and other health conditions, all without moving any goalposts.
      - batch12 3y ago
        No we wouldn't. If these hypothetical people are that close to the edge where 10 grams of sugar and 70 calories would do this, they'd develop the diseases anyway. So the number would be the same.
        3y ago
WrongAssumption 3y ago
We’re talking like 40 calories.
- brigandish 3y ago
  Ignoring the fact that I wasn't thinking of the total extra calories of anyone eating a piece of chocolate (a piece being undefined in size anyway) to end at that piece of chocolate… The UK's top selling chocolate is Cadbury's Dairy Milk. It's 45 grams in total, and each of the 60 pieces is indeed 40 calories. Most people I know eat the whole thing, and those people are overweight, like the majority of the UK public, an obesity rate that is matched in many countries world wide. As of a couple of years ago, diabetes diagnoses have doubled in the last 15 years > that over 4.9 million people are currently living with diabetes in the UK, with 90 per cent of those with type 2 type 2 diabetes being the one that correlates, if not is caused by, obesity. Additionally: > 13.6m people are now at increased risk of type 2 diabetes in the UK Again, this is a world wide problem[1]. Just the other day I was listening to the Huberman Lab podcast about eye health and the expert pointed out that the upsurge in diabetes in the US and elsewhere was threatening eye health[2]. So, you may say it's only 40 calories but the data shows that people are getting fatter, because those eating a piece per day aren't only eating a piece per day, whether that's chocolate or other things. If it were just the extra 40 calories there wouldn't be a problem. [0] https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/diabetes-diagnoses-doubled-prevalence-2021 https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/diabetes-diagnoses... [1] https://www.worldobesity.org/resources/resource-library/covid-19-and-obesity-the-2021-atlas https://www.worldobesity.org/resources/resource-library/covi... [2] https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-jeffrey-goldberg-how-to-improve-your-eye-health-and-offset-vision-loss?timestamp=8042 https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-jeffrey-goldberg-how-...
omeid2 3y ago
Obesity and Diabetes aren't given just because you take sugar, it is the surplus that matters.
- brigandish 3y ago
  That may be why I used the word likely in the statement, to avoid black and white conclusions.
gnicholas 3y ago
There is an inverse relationship between the level of metals and the total calories. Very dark chocolate would have much more heavy metals, whereas milk chocolate would be worse from a caloric perspective. So someone who eats a bit of 80% chocolate each day would not be consuming that many calories, compared to the amount of heavy metals. Someone who ate milk chocolate would get very little in the way of calories, but quite a bit more calories.
- TylerE 3y ago
  Dark chocolate isn’t especially bad for you. Not that much sugar in it, really, if you stick to 80%+. The nutritional profile is a lot like peanut butter.. calories and fat yes, but gobs if protein.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    Yes, though it seems that 80%+ is perhaps not so great from a heavy metals perspective...
bruce511 3y ago
My idea of a "piece" and yours may differ dramatically. Nevertheless I don't think one "piece" a day will bring on diabetes or obesity. Firstly, depending on the product and amount, you're looking at under 100 calories. Since daily requirements are something over 2000 calories per day the rest of your diet matters more. Diabetes is a complex disease caused by excessive insulin production. Sugar is a part of the causal chain, but not a direct cause. See https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2023/03/can-eating-too-much-sugar-cause-diabetes#:~:text=You%20may%20have%20wondered%20if,levels%20are%20consistently%20too%20high https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2023/03/can-eating.... Yes, the levels of metals are important. I presume their presence is caused by metal components in their manufacture. Which begs the question if there are other products in play here not just chocolate.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- brigandish 3y ago
  Why are you saying that I'm suggesting one piece of chocolate a day will bring on diabetes or obesity? You may as well say that I'm suggesting they only eat one piece of chocolate a day and will die of starvation as it would be just as justifiable a reading. No, eating chocolate every day (and in my mind I thought of the kind of chocolate confectionary one would buy in a corner shop) would suggest an unhealthy lifestyle in general and an inability to eat healthily, again, in general. > Sugar is a part of the causal chain, but not a direct cause. Again, why are you reading things that I did not state? I wrote "obesity and diabetes". Obesity is definitely a major risk factor, if not a direct cause of type 2 diabetes. The risk of it increases linearly with BMI. To think I suggested that eating one bar of chocolate alone would cause diabetes is absurd.
  - bruce511 3y ago
    Your follow up is perhaps more nuanced than your original post, and does a better job of explaining your thinking here. I simply took your original post as it was stated; >> On the other hand, eating a piece every day for 3 years will likely bring other health effects (primarily, obesity and diabetes) I appreciate you glorifying your original intent.

happytiger 3y ago

*What is this article?* This is a chocolate company PR plant article, which have been hitting the presses hard with this message. It is disaster management / emergency PR. They don’t want to discuss bioaccumulation of heavy metals because it would be very bad for business. It’s not new. And it’s especially bad for children so you can imagine what the chocolate industry worries about at night. *Isnt all food bad in excess of RDA?* There is a big difference between eating in an unhealthy way and selling a product that has known health effects that are especially egregious for kids, so don’t pay any kind to the other counterargument big chocolate likes to press: that any food in excess is unhealthy. It’s now wrong, but it’s a classic straw man argument (or a cake or cupcake argument really). So then “should we make cupcakes illegal then?” Well. Uh. Unfortunately: yes, if they contain large amounts of cadmium or any measurable amount of lead we absolutely should — no amount of lead in food is considered “safe” especially for kids.)). *You must hate chocolate.* I love chocolate. Why can’t we process this stuff out of it so we can enjoy it properly? Anyone an expert in heavy metals removal from food? Save chocolate please. The world needs you. *This is just one article on one piece of research.* A few earlier articles and research that bolsters the case: https://www.confectionerynews.com/Article/2015/02/16/Lead-and-cadmium-metals-in-chocolate-Hershey-and-Mars-face-lawsuit https://www.confectionerynews.com/Article/2015/02/16/Lead-an... https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/10y9yhe/ysk_as_you_sow_has_tested_chocolate_for_heavy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/10y9yhe/ysk_... https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/heavy-metals-found-in-popular-brands-of-dark-chocolate https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/heavy-metals-fou... https://time.com/6243073/heavy-metals-dark-chocolate-food/ https://time.com/6243073/heavy-metals-dark-chocolate-food/

TylerE 3y ago
There’s also a big difference between ethically sourced, tester boutique chocolate and Hersheys/Cadburys type swill that isn’t fit for the name.
- gruez 3y ago
  What does ethical sourcing have to do with heavy metal poisoning?

tomtheelder 3y ago

It doesn't mention accumulation because that's already factored in. The levels they are talking about are a daily amount, not a single dosage.

kyriakos 3y ago

Theoretically if I was consuming 3 teaspoons per day (that's 17g approximately) wouldn't I be in danger even if the cadmium and lead levels are under the FDA levels?

ip26 3y ago

You accumulate when you can’t eliminate fast enough. Some sources indicate you can safely eliminate up to ~30mcg of cadmium per day. Many of these bars appear to have 10-12mcg. So, if you ate one bar daily, you would never accumulate. Four bars daily would be a different story.

TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
That’s cadmium. You don’t eliminate lead to the same degree.