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The "pay upfront" cost is $2,000/month. This is for data that was obtained via a network of shady data brokers. Visa, MC, banking industry can fuck off. Users

by xyst 3y ago

The "pay upfront" cost is $2,000/month. This is for data that was obtained via a network of shady data brokers. Visa, MC, banking industry can fuck off. Users likely not reimbursed for their data getting packaged and resold by merchants, payment networks, or credit card issuers

hammock 3y ago
This data was already available to purchase long before this, for far more. Acxiom, Epsilon, etc
- nerdponx 3y ago
  But this is pretty bold to just put it on display and to have the audacity to claim that it's privacy-respecting because it doesn't contain PII.
dogman144 3y ago
Getting downvoted for a true statement. Reading up on programmatic advertising from a perspective of learning it vs resources that critique it is illuminating. You’re describing how it works. Use cash and buy offline with your cellphone left at home (yes, all 3), or get your data sold for other people’s products. I used to be more vocal about privacy but reviewing the innards of the tech make me think this dynamic will never change. Too much money and too well built.
- throw10920 3y ago
  > with your cellphone left at home What's the angle on this?
  - dgfitz 3y ago
    So there isn’t a record of your phone going to the store…
  - dogman144 3y ago
    I’m loose on the terminology but there’s a market for “offline data” correlation. Gist of it is if your cellphone says you went wherever, there’re intuitions about what you bought. For example, stores have Bluetooth and Wi-Fi beacons on top of aisles - if your phone beacons but doesn’t connect, the store can pull a device ID (so to speak), and again correlate. Similarly interesting is “retargeting” that tracks you’ve unsubscribed from emails and the retargets a similar ad. The Dominik Kosorin books on adtech for a technical audience (Amazon) were illuminating and also broke my spirt on privacy. This stuff is everywhere and there’s an identity graph out there that has your life. No dodging it until regulations change or you go offline. Edit - some other interesting angles. Third party cookie blocks in browsers harmed the industry. One of the main suggested recovery approaches is building graphs on authenticated logins. Every resource accessed post-login has a good chance of being that user. This is behind all the “sign in with Google/FB,” and known for a while as part of adtech. The primary issue with authn’d tracking is the friction of logging in, and the power it gives to closed networks that can track post-login easily like Google, FB, Apple. What is the new, de-frictioned login flow pushed widely now as a way to go passwordless and solve the many security problems? All do-good messaging? Passkeys. What is also a de-fricituoned post-authentication user graph, if you use it to sign into everything? Passkeys. Adtech is a cancerous industry.
  - mike_d 3y ago
    Dozens of companies buy location data from mobile apps, ad networks, cell networks, wifi networks, etc. and resell it. Some of the platforms will let you geofence your store then track phones back to where they "go home" to charge that night and then mail coupons to that address. https://heyirys.com/ https://heyirys.com/ https://www.redmob.io/ https://www.redmob.io/ https://echo-analytics.com/ https://echo-analytics.com/ https://www.factori.ai/ https://www.factori.ai/ among others.
- killthebuddha 3y ago
  I'm interested in taking this approach to learning, would you mind sharing some good starting points?
  - dogman144 3y ago
    Dominik Kosorin books on programmatic advertising on Amazon are a great start. First place I’ve seen Facebook and Twitter referred to only as “advertising platforms,” and the candor was nice.
EMCymatics 3y ago
Giving bazookas to unscreened people.
paxys 3y ago
Oh but you get magic points that make up for everything. Which you already pay for via outsided transaction fees every time you use your card. And predatory interest rates if you happen to miss a single payment. And get your personal info and spending habits sold on top of that. The entire industry is a scam.

by xyst 3y ago

hammock 3y ago

This data was already available to purchase long before this, for far more. Acxiom, Epsilon, etc

nerdponx 3y ago
But this is pretty bold to just put it on display and to have the audacity to claim that it's privacy-respecting because it doesn't contain PII.

dogman144 3y ago

Getting downvoted for a true statement. Reading up on programmatic advertising from a perspective of learning it vs resources that critique it is illuminating. You’re describing how it works. Use cash and buy offline with your cellphone left at home (yes, all 3), or get your data sold for other people’s products. I used to be more vocal about privacy but reviewing the innards of the tech make me think this dynamic will never change. Too much money and too well built.

throw10920 3y ago
> with your cellphone left at home What's the angle on this?
- dgfitz 3y ago
  So there isn’t a record of your phone going to the store…
- dogman144 3y ago
  I’m loose on the terminology but there’s a market for “offline data” correlation. Gist of it is if your cellphone says you went wherever, there’re intuitions about what you bought. For example, stores have Bluetooth and Wi-Fi beacons on top of aisles - if your phone beacons but doesn’t connect, the store can pull a device ID (so to speak), and again correlate. Similarly interesting is “retargeting” that tracks you’ve unsubscribed from emails and the retargets a similar ad. The Dominik Kosorin books on adtech for a technical audience (Amazon) were illuminating and also broke my spirt on privacy. This stuff is everywhere and there’s an identity graph out there that has your life. No dodging it until regulations change or you go offline. Edit - some other interesting angles. Third party cookie blocks in browsers harmed the industry. One of the main suggested recovery approaches is building graphs on authenticated logins. Every resource accessed post-login has a good chance of being that user. This is behind all the “sign in with Google/FB,” and known for a while as part of adtech. The primary issue with authn’d tracking is the friction of logging in, and the power it gives to closed networks that can track post-login easily like Google, FB, Apple. What is the new, de-frictioned login flow pushed widely now as a way to go passwordless and solve the many security problems? All do-good messaging? Passkeys. What is also a de-fricituoned post-authentication user graph, if you use it to sign into everything? Passkeys. Adtech is a cancerous industry.
- mike_d 3y ago
  Dozens of companies buy location data from mobile apps, ad networks, cell networks, wifi networks, etc. and resell it. Some of the platforms will let you geofence your store then track phones back to where they "go home" to charge that night and then mail coupons to that address. https://heyirys.com/ https://heyirys.com/ https://www.redmob.io/ https://www.redmob.io/ https://echo-analytics.com/ https://echo-analytics.com/ https://www.factori.ai/ https://www.factori.ai/ among others.
killthebuddha 3y ago
I'm interested in taking this approach to learning, would you mind sharing some good starting points?
- dogman144 3y ago
  Dominik Kosorin books on programmatic advertising on Amazon are a great start. First place I’ve seen Facebook and Twitter referred to only as “advertising platforms,” and the candor was nice.

EMCymatics 3y ago

Giving bazookas to unscreened people.

paxys 3y ago

Oh but you get magic points that make up for everything. Which you already pay for via outsided transaction fees every time you use your card. And predatory interest rates if you happen to miss a single payment. And get your personal info and spending habits sold on top of that. The entire industry is a scam.