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This: > The anxiety today is not useful because it's anxiety about something that will never happen. You'll never be aware of having died or lost anything thro

This: > The anxiety today is not useful because it's anxiety about something that will never happen. You'll never be aware of having died or lost anything through your own death. Isn't addressing the thing that (I think?) most people are worried about when they worry about death. I don't think most are worried about how bad they will feel after they die, which is what this is concerned with. It's totally beside the point. The point is that we are conscious, now, and imagining what it means for that consciousness to end and for the entire future of the universe to not exist to us at all—really imagining it—can be rather unpleasant. Upsetting, even. It's subjectively identical to the end of the universe. "But you used to not exist"—irrelevant, because 1) I do now, and 2) I at least get some kind of window into what all that was, since it's... the past. "But you'll experience nothing, so it won't be unpleasant"—even less relevant. I'm not worried about that state of (not) being, being unpleasant. I'm not worried about existing with an awareness of having died, as mentioned in the quoted bit.

digging 3y ago
> imagining what it means for that consciousness to end and for the entire future of the universe to not exist to us at all—really imagining it—can be rather unpleasant. It's unpleasant, and it's difficult to imagine, that doesn't mean you should be anxious about your own death. Again... from your subjective experience, I'm not sure it's even meaningful to say that you will die. You will only ever experience being alive. You can't even be sure that the universe will continue after your death, either. Does it seem most likely that it will? In some models of the universe, it's actually infinitely more likely that it won't, because it all exists inside your (Boltzmann) brain. Like what is the specific thing that causes anxiety? That's still not clear to me. Not-knowing, yeah, that can cause anxiety. And it can be soothed by changing your perspective, taking delight in the mysteries of existence. We all have a visceral anxiety about death which our bodies evolved to have, because it's quite useful for a living thing to want to stay alive. But that's not based in reason, and we can use reason to alleviate our anxiety.
- ericmay 3y ago
  For me it’s… let’s say I enjoy wine. When I die I won’t get to enjoy wine. But I like wine! I’d rather continue to live and enjoy it than die. I’m not worried about the nothingness after I die. I’m anxious about the impending loss of enjoying my wine. Have you ever been to a party and it started winding down and people left and you wanted them to stay and the fun to continue? That’s the anxiety.
  - digging 3y ago
    I do understand that, yeah. And thanks for the neat analogy. What I believe is, you probably won't actually ever have to stop drinking wine. From your perspective, I'm not sure it's meaningful to say you'll ever stop existing, because you can't experience it. You'll (probably) just stop existing for me, and I for you. It's fair to be sad about it just like I'm sad that the elves left Middle Earth at the end of the Third Age. But neither my own death nor the leaving of the elves is something I can ever actually live through - they're both just stories to me.

digging 3y ago

> imagining what it means for that consciousness to end and for the entire future of the universe to not exist to us at all—really imagining it—can be rather unpleasant. It's unpleasant, and it's difficult to imagine, that doesn't mean you should be anxious about your own death. Again... from your subjective experience, I'm not sure it's even meaningful to say that you will die. You will only ever experience being alive. You can't even be sure that the universe will continue after your death, either. Does it seem most likely that it will? In some models of the universe, it's actually infinitely more likely that it won't, because it all exists inside your (Boltzmann) brain. Like what is the specific thing that causes anxiety? That's still not clear to me. Not-knowing, yeah, that can cause anxiety. And it can be soothed by changing your perspective, taking delight in the mysteries of existence. We all have a visceral anxiety about death which our bodies evolved to have, because it's quite useful for a living thing to want to stay alive. But that's not based in reason, and we can use reason to alleviate our anxiety.

ericmay 3y ago
For me it’s… let’s say I enjoy wine. When I die I won’t get to enjoy wine. But I like wine! I’d rather continue to live and enjoy it than die. I’m not worried about the nothingness after I die. I’m anxious about the impending loss of enjoying my wine. Have you ever been to a party and it started winding down and people left and you wanted them to stay and the fun to continue? That’s the anxiety.
- digging 3y ago
  I do understand that, yeah. And thanks for the neat analogy. What I believe is, you probably won't actually ever have to stop drinking wine. From your perspective, I'm not sure it's meaningful to say you'll ever stop existing, because you can't experience it. You'll (probably) just stop existing for me, and I for you. It's fair to be sad about it just like I'm sad that the elves left Middle Earth at the end of the Third Age. But neither my own death nor the leaving of the elves is something I can ever actually live through - they're both just stories to me.