4 ms·

I'm actually on the opposite side of this. I wish there were more metered options available for data, especially for wireless options. I'd love to see an offeri

by jjcm 3y ago

I'm actually on the opposite side of this. I wish there were more metered options available for data, especially for wireless options. I'd love to see an offering that has a low monthly connection fee (i.e. $1-5), along with a sensible price per GB option (i.e. double the cost of transit so there are decent margins on this, but isn't something crazy like $10/gb). Assuming that for most consumers the end price averages to be the same, the benefit of metered is it puts an incentive on the data provider to make their speeds as high as possible. Higher speeds will result in more bandwidth usage (i.e. Youtube/Netflix will default to a higher data rate), which will result in more profit for the company. The desires of the customer and the desires of the provider are the same - faster and more stable internet leads to better customer experience and more profit. One of the issues I see with fixed-speed-unlimited-data options is that providers are incentivized to oversell the fixed speed bandwidth, leading to "up to 100mbps" type connections where it's a theoretical max, not the average. Under this model the desires of the customer are misaligned with the desires of the provider. The provider wants the customer to use as little data as possible - the less they use the more they can sell plans on the same infrastructure. This can be addressed with rules and regulations, but I prefer a situation where I know both the customer and provider have aligned desires.

elzbardico 3y ago
Yes, metering is the rational thing to do. But caps are different and don't work the same.
stefan_ 3y ago
Well twice the price of transit is .. NaN? Data isn't generally charged in bits.
ftth_finland 3y ago
It makes no sense to price wireless data based on IP transit costs. IP transit costs per GB are a fraction of a hundredth of a penny. It barely makes any sense to bill consumers per GB on any terrestrial network. In Northern Europe a typical 4G SIM with a monthly data quota is $9 per month. An unlimited 4G SIM with all you can eat data is $18. How many price points do you need in between? Heck, international 4G/5G data roaming fees are capped at $2/GB and by 2027 the cap will be $1/GB.
musha68k 3y ago
The metered pricing model doesn’t align with reality of data costs for ISPs which are often negligible (thanks to technological advances and peering agreements especially). This makes the metered model more of a revenue strategy than a necessity. It’s also conflicting with basic tenets of net neutrality.
hn_acker 3y ago
At least for wired connections, data caps are utterly artificial [1]. > Network congestion arguments in this debate operate on an unsubstantiated and uncontextualized assumption of scarcity — there is only so much bandwidth, and a few people are going to use it all. Yes, some network congestion arguments have prevailed with wireless broadband because of the atmospherical and technical limitations of the medium. However, congestion is not as consequential for fixed broadband. Broadband providers reason that instead of limiting these internet “super-users” (which would be discriminatory and litigated accordingly), they need to implement data caps for all consumers, which they claim is fair and unbiased. However, scarcity is not a reality for broadband providers, even with super-users. Internet functions by “statistical multiplexing” meaning that bandwidth is dynamically allocated and reused without a limit “[u]nlike other utilities such as water, electricity, gas or oil.” > This means that no super-user is consuming bandwidth at the expense of other users; you’re not going to receive less internet because your neighbor runs a Twitch channel, for example. Rather, super-users are simply using more internet more often, and the “super-user discount” (the fact that broadband providers aren’t able to charge them, specifically, for this “above normal” usage) angers providers more than anything else. This brings us to the real reason broadband providers apply data caps to consumers: money. Applying data caps to all of us, therefore, enables broadband providers to pat themselves on the back for devising clever “overage” fees. As time goes on the same will become true for the majority of wireless usage, if it isn't true already. Sending twice the data at a time doesn't cost the ISP twice the money. But large ISPs with regional monopolies continue overcharging you [2] while committing subsidy fraud [3] and subsidy obstruction [4] at every opportunity (sometimes with help from corrupt legislators [5]). [1] https://publicknowledge.org/no-cap-the-truth-about-data-caps-and-zero-rating/ https://publicknowledge.org/no-cap-the-truth-about-data-caps... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38105873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38105873 [3] Pick any one of these links. https://www.techdirt.com/2020/10/06/mississippi-says-att-took-283-million-network-it-never-fully-deployed/ https://www.techdirt.com/2020/10/06/mississippi-says-att-too... https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-continues-to-lie-about-its-broadband-coverage/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-con... https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/16/verizon-t-mobile-overstate-wireless-coverage-to-nab-billions-in-undeserved-subsidies/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/16/verizon-t-mobile-oversta... [4] Pick any one of these links. https://communitynets.org/content/monopoly-providers-mire-ntia-broadband-grant-process-costly-empty-challenges https://communitynets.org/content/monopoly-providers-mire-nt... https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-continues-to-lie-about-its-broadband-coverage/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-con... https://www.techdirt.com/2015/04/16/alec-threatens-to-sue-critics-that-point-out-it-helps-keep-broadband-uncompetitive/ https://www.techdirt.com/2015/04/16/alec-threatens-to-sue-cr... [5] Ditto. https://www.techdirt.com/2021/02/19/new-bill-tries-to-ban-community-broadband-during-pandemic/ https://www.techdirt.com/2021/02/19/new-bill-tries-to-ban-co... https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/11/illinois-missouri-and-new-york-lawmakers-are-helping-telecom-monopolies-block-broadband-competition/ https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/11/illinois-missouri-and-ne...

by jjcm 3y ago

elzbardico 3y ago

Yes, metering is the rational thing to do. But caps are different and don't work the same.

stefan_ 3y ago

Well twice the price of transit is .. NaN? Data isn't generally charged in bits.

ftth_finland 3y ago

It makes no sense to price wireless data based on IP transit costs. IP transit costs per GB are a fraction of a hundredth of a penny. It barely makes any sense to bill consumers per GB on any terrestrial network. In Northern Europe a typical 4G SIM with a monthly data quota is $9 per month. An unlimited 4G SIM with all you can eat data is $18. How many price points do you need in between? Heck, international 4G/5G data roaming fees are capped at $2/GB and by 2027 the cap will be $1/GB.

musha68k 3y ago

The metered pricing model doesn’t align with reality of data costs for ISPs which are often negligible (thanks to technological advances and peering agreements especially). This makes the metered model more of a revenue strategy than a necessity. It’s also conflicting with basic tenets of net neutrality.

hn_acker 3y ago

At least for wired connections, data caps are utterly artificial [1]. > Network congestion arguments in this debate operate on an unsubstantiated and uncontextualized assumption of scarcity — there is only so much bandwidth, and a few people are going to use it all. Yes, some network congestion arguments have prevailed with wireless broadband because of the atmospherical and technical limitations of the medium. However, congestion is not as consequential for fixed broadband. Broadband providers reason that instead of limiting these internet “super-users” (which would be discriminatory and litigated accordingly), they need to implement data caps for all consumers, which they claim is fair and unbiased. However, scarcity is not a reality for broadband providers, even with super-users. Internet functions by “statistical multiplexing” meaning that bandwidth is dynamically allocated and reused without a limit “[u]nlike other utilities such as water, electricity, gas or oil.” > This means that no super-user is consuming bandwidth at the expense of other users; you’re not going to receive less internet because your neighbor runs a Twitch channel, for example. Rather, super-users are simply using more internet more often, and the “super-user discount” (the fact that broadband providers aren’t able to charge them, specifically, for this “above normal” usage) angers providers more than anything else. This brings us to the real reason broadband providers apply data caps to consumers: money. Applying data caps to all of us, therefore, enables broadband providers to pat themselves on the back for devising clever “overage” fees. As time goes on the same will become true for the majority of wireless usage, if it isn't true already. Sending twice the data at a time doesn't cost the ISP twice the money. But large ISPs with regional monopolies continue overcharging you [2] while committing subsidy fraud [3] and subsidy obstruction [4] at every opportunity (sometimes with help from corrupt legislators [5]). [1] https://publicknowledge.org/no-cap-the-truth-about-data-caps-and-zero-rating/ https://publicknowledge.org/no-cap-the-truth-about-data-caps... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38105873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38105873 [3] Pick any one of these links. https://www.techdirt.com/2020/10/06/mississippi-says-att-took-283-million-network-it-never-fully-deployed/ https://www.techdirt.com/2020/10/06/mississippi-says-att-too... https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-continues-to-lie-about-its-broadband-coverage/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-con... https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/16/verizon-t-mobile-overstate-wireless-coverage-to-nab-billions-in-undeserved-subsidies/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/16/verizon-t-mobile-oversta... [4] Pick any one of these links. https://communitynets.org/content/monopoly-providers-mire-ntia-broadband-grant-process-costly-empty-challenges https://communitynets.org/content/monopoly-providers-mire-nt... https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-continues-to-lie-about-its-broadband-coverage/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-con... https://www.techdirt.com/2015/04/16/alec-threatens-to-sue-critics-that-point-out-it-helps-keep-broadband-uncompetitive/ https://www.techdirt.com/2015/04/16/alec-threatens-to-sue-cr... [5] Ditto. https://www.techdirt.com/2021/02/19/new-bill-tries-to-ban-community-broadband-during-pandemic/ https://www.techdirt.com/2021/02/19/new-bill-tries-to-ban-co... https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/11/illinois-missouri-and-new-york-lawmakers-are-helping-telecom-monopolies-block-broadband-competition/ https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/11/illinois-missouri-and-ne...