5 ms·

First, Computer Programmer is a strange occupation. According to BLS there are just 147K positions in the US. Instead I'd suggest looking at Software Developer

by woobar 3y ago

First, Computer Programmer is a strange occupation. According to BLS there are just 147K positions in the US. Instead I'd suggest looking at Software Developers (1.5M positions) with median income at $127K. Second, by definition median is not a competitive salary. I'd think top 25% of devs are getting competitive salary. Which is $161K [1] 20 years of savings at 30% of income will get you $2M. Which is not a fat retirement, but still doable. [1] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm#nat https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm#nat

hotnfresh 3y ago
> Second, by definition median is not a competitive salary. Yes, it is. For the field as a whole? Yes, it absolutely is. For specific segments of it? No. Some of those are higher. And others are lower. > 20 years of savings at 30% of income will get you $2M. Which is not a fat retirement, but still doable. Healthcare complicates early retirement badly in the US. Retire at (say) 45 with only $2m in the bank and you are... gambling. To put it mildly. Even if you live reasonably frugally.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > Healthcare complicates early retirement badly in the US. Retire at (say) 45 with only $2m in the bank and you are... gambling. To put it mildly. Even if you live reasonably frugally. 100% this. I'm almost 50, and as I look towards retirement, I think I should try to find a cushy job that'll last me to 65 without causing too much stress, because until you qualify for Medicare it's really hard to afford health insurance premiums unless you're fashionably wealthy.
  - manzanarama 3y ago
    Really, what is a good ballpark for a family of 4? Is it like 5k a month?
    - madengr 3y ago
      [dead]
- woobar 3y ago
  I do not agree. If someone said "bringing regular salary in tech" I'd agree that median should be used. "Competitive" means we are talking about higher percentile within the field. > Healthcare complicates early retirement You don't have to stay in the US when retired. With 4% SWR one will be getting $80K/year. Which is more than median household income in the US and majority of the other countries. I am not advocating retiring at 45 with $2M, I am just saying it is not that crazy.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    I've always considered "competitive" to be a signal of "as close as possible to our average competitor". It doesn't mean good or high. When a job offer says "competitive salary", it's not a good sign. I assume they mean around average, maybe a little bit below average. If the job offer was offering a significantly great salary, the company would boast about it as more than "competitive."
    - deathanatos 3y ago
      "Competitive" is job listing filler IMO. Everybody is "competitive". I've seen "competitive" salaries wanting me to take a >30% pay cut.
    - happytoexplain 3y ago
      Yes, absolutely - though it's a difference from colloquial English, where it does normally mean "good"/"better than average". Businesses just use it as a weasel-word.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    It is also not going to be the easiest, emigrating to a country with a robust healthcare and social safety net as a retiree in your 40s.
    - woobar 3y ago
      A lot of cheap countries provide good healthcare for a fraction of american costs. Also, not sure why one need a safety net when they already have a stable income which is multiple of what any such net can provide.
- cyberax 3y ago
  > Healthcare complicates early retirement badly in the US. Retire at (say) 45 with only $2m in the bank and you are... gambling. Uhh... Why? A very good health insurance is about $10k a year (PSA: the open enrollment period for 2024 has started today). Even if you are unlucky to get a chronic condition that needs expensive care, that's still capped at around $6k a year by the out-of-pocket maximum. So that's $16k a year per person maximum, over 20 years (until Medicare eligibility) that's $320k. If you want to include family, that's going to be around $500k. And that's the worst case. It's going to be a huge chunk of the expense, but not insurmountable.
  - xnx 3y ago
    Heathcare could [again] get twice as expensive in the next 20 years: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/price-changes-consumer-goods-services-united-states https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/price-changes-consumer-go...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ndriscoll 3y ago
  As a retiree, you can probably arrange to qualify for a free silver plan under the ACA. There are no asset tests, only income. This is true for other subsidies too. If you've mostly accumulated assets in excluded locations, you can also qualify for college tuition subsidies.
cyberax 3y ago
Heh. I worked at a startup, and they were sponsoring a Green Card for me. They had to raise my salary to $165k because this was the _minimal_ allowed competitive salary for my position ("Senior Software Developer"), and the USCIS doesn't take stock grants into account. This was 2 years ago.

by woobar 3y ago

hotnfresh 3y ago

> Second, by definition median is not a competitive salary. Yes, it is. For the field as a whole? Yes, it absolutely is. For specific segments of it? No. Some of those are higher. And others are lower. > 20 years of savings at 30% of income will get you $2M. Which is not a fat retirement, but still doable. Healthcare complicates early retirement badly in the US. Retire at (say) 45 with only $2m in the bank and you are... gambling. To put it mildly. Even if you live reasonably frugally.

rootusrootus 3y ago
> Healthcare complicates early retirement badly in the US. Retire at (say) 45 with only $2m in the bank and you are... gambling. To put it mildly. Even if you live reasonably frugally. 100% this. I'm almost 50, and as I look towards retirement, I think I should try to find a cushy job that'll last me to 65 without causing too much stress, because until you qualify for Medicare it's really hard to afford health insurance premiums unless you're fashionably wealthy.
- manzanarama 3y ago
  Really, what is a good ballpark for a family of 4? Is it like 5k a month?
  - madengr 3y ago
    [dead]
woobar 3y ago
I do not agree. If someone said "bringing regular salary in tech" I'd agree that median should be used. "Competitive" means we are talking about higher percentile within the field. > Healthcare complicates early retirement You don't have to stay in the US when retired. With 4% SWR one will be getting $80K/year. Which is more than median household income in the US and majority of the other countries. I am not advocating retiring at 45 with $2M, I am just saying it is not that crazy.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  I've always considered "competitive" to be a signal of "as close as possible to our average competitor". It doesn't mean good or high. When a job offer says "competitive salary", it's not a good sign. I assume they mean around average, maybe a little bit below average. If the job offer was offering a significantly great salary, the company would boast about it as more than "competitive."
  - deathanatos 3y ago
    "Competitive" is job listing filler IMO. Everybody is "competitive". I've seen "competitive" salaries wanting me to take a >30% pay cut.
  - happytoexplain 3y ago
    Yes, absolutely - though it's a difference from colloquial English, where it does normally mean "good"/"better than average". Businesses just use it as a weasel-word.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  It is also not going to be the easiest, emigrating to a country with a robust healthcare and social safety net as a retiree in your 40s.
  - woobar 3y ago
    A lot of cheap countries provide good healthcare for a fraction of american costs. Also, not sure why one need a safety net when they already have a stable income which is multiple of what any such net can provide.
cyberax 3y ago
> Healthcare complicates early retirement badly in the US. Retire at (say) 45 with only $2m in the bank and you are... gambling. Uhh... Why? A very good health insurance is about $10k a year (PSA: the open enrollment period for 2024 has started today). Even if you are unlucky to get a chronic condition that needs expensive care, that's still capped at around $6k a year by the out-of-pocket maximum. So that's $16k a year per person maximum, over 20 years (until Medicare eligibility) that's $320k. If you want to include family, that's going to be around $500k. And that's the worst case. It's going to be a huge chunk of the expense, but not insurmountable.
- xnx 3y ago
  Heathcare could [again] get twice as expensive in the next 20 years: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/price-changes-consumer-goods-services-united-states https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/price-changes-consumer-go...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ndriscoll 3y ago
As a retiree, you can probably arrange to qualify for a free silver plan under the ACA. There are no asset tests, only income. This is true for other subsidies too. If you've mostly accumulated assets in excluded locations, you can also qualify for college tuition subsidies.

cyberax 3y ago

Heh. I worked at a startup, and they were sponsoring a Green Card for me. They had to raise my salary to $165k because this was the _minimal_ allowed competitive salary for my position ("Senior Software Developer"), and the USCIS doesn't take stock grants into account. This was 2 years ago.