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In the '00s, HVAC people in my area of the US were recommending against heat pumps because they'd not be able to run in heat-pump mode enough to make it worth i

In the '00s, HVAC people in my area of the US were recommending against heat pumps because they'd not be able to run in heat-pump mode enough to make it worth it, and they were more complex, so had more ways to fail. And more expensive up-front, since you'd still have to have a furnace anyway and they were pricier than a plain central AC unit of similar size. Ones I spoke to said the new houses installing them and touting the energy efficiency to buyers were all under-sizing and those folks were going to have really crappy heating and cooling until they eventually replace the units (but, to be fair, new construction also tends to under-size furnaces and regular AC). From what I could tell, they were mostly right about all that. You'd be lucky to break even on overall costs if you went with a heat pump in that decade. The ones that weren't crazy-expensive only worked down to (IIRC) 20F or something like that, and we just had too many days under that in a year for it to make much sense. Newer ones are better, but I bet "heat pumps are a scam" remains an attitude in many circles, because at one point they kinda were. At least in our climate. Other countries may have had bigger government incentives that offset the costs of higher-end heat pumps back then so the economics worked out better, I dunno, but we didn't. [EDIT] Air-air, that is. Practically nobody does geothermal heat pumps here. The up-front cost is waaaaaay higher than any kind of normal (for us) set-up, not many people do it so that makes the cost even higher because the installation market is tiny, and energy costs aren't high enough to make the extra tens of thousands of dollars a good investment.

windexh8er 3y ago
> Practically nobody does geothermal heat pumps here. The up-front cost is waaaaaay higher than any kind of normal (for us) set-up, not many people do it so that makes the cost even higher because the installation market is tiny, and energy costs aren't high enough to make the extra tens of thousands of dollars a good investment. This isn't true in all parts of the US. A family member of mine has had an open loop geo-thermal system for almost a decade now, and they're definitely not the only one in the area. I'd say about half of my neighborhood has air source heat pumps and about a quarter of the remaining have geo-thermal (vertical loops). There are two HVAC businesses in my area that specialize in nothing but ground source heat pumps. If there was no market, they'd be out of business. I think, where I am, it's harder to find a cognizant air source installer. Most of the HVAC businesses here are still under the misconception that air source isn't viable in our northern locale and often don't try to sell, or try to talk people out of them. But my air source is able to heat our house easily at 0F and is rated to run below -10F. It's currently my main heat source. Over the course of winter I'd guesstimate 60-70% heat pump heating overall.
petre 3y ago
Finland runs ground source water to water (geothermal) heat pumps on district heating carrying lower temperature waste heat from industrial processes. If one does that they don't need a borehole, but it needs the waste heat infrastructure and it only works where the population density is higher (apartment and office buildings). Also if one has a lake or high enough groundwater, it's easier since one only needs to put the outside pipes in the lake or pump water, or dig shallower trenches or boreholes. So the choice mostly depends on your location and what energy resources you have around you.

windexh8er 3y ago

> Practically nobody does geothermal heat pumps here. The up-front cost is waaaaaay higher than any kind of normal (for us) set-up, not many people do it so that makes the cost even higher because the installation market is tiny, and energy costs aren't high enough to make the extra tens of thousands of dollars a good investment. This isn't true in all parts of the US. A family member of mine has had an open loop geo-thermal system for almost a decade now, and they're definitely not the only one in the area. I'd say about half of my neighborhood has air source heat pumps and about a quarter of the remaining have geo-thermal (vertical loops). There are two HVAC businesses in my area that specialize in nothing but ground source heat pumps. If there was no market, they'd be out of business. I think, where I am, it's harder to find a cognizant air source installer. Most of the HVAC businesses here are still under the misconception that air source isn't viable in our northern locale and often don't try to sell, or try to talk people out of them. But my air source is able to heat our house easily at 0F and is rated to run below -10F. It's currently my main heat source. Over the course of winter I'd guesstimate 60-70% heat pump heating overall.

petre 3y ago

Finland runs ground source water to water (geothermal) heat pumps on district heating carrying lower temperature waste heat from industrial processes. If one does that they don't need a borehole, but it needs the waste heat infrastructure and it only works where the population density is higher (apartment and office buildings). Also if one has a lake or high enough groundwater, it's easier since one only needs to put the outside pipes in the lake or pump water, or dig shallower trenches or boreholes. So the choice mostly depends on your location and what energy resources you have around you.