7 ms·

Bricking your own devices with your own update is extremely amateurish and embarrassing. If Apple knew about shame that is.

saagarjha 3y ago
Ok, let’s see your processes for shipping an update to a hundred million devices.
- cromka 3y ago
  This wasn’t an issue in their rollout process, but in their QA that needs to test orders of magnitude less setups.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    Presumably they'd need to test more? Because I assume that whatever they tested passed QA and didn't include what Asahi is reporting.
  - s3p 3y ago
    Semantics. Seems to me like OP was talking about the entire project of making and releasing the newest version. QA would most definitely be apart of that.
- azinman2 3y ago
  *billion
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    Definitely not that many Macs in use
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- troupo 3y ago
  Not do yearly release cycles.
tambourine_man 3y ago
It’s not bricking.
- robocat 3y ago
  By that definition, neither is bricking bricking. You can often use technical solutions (e.g. JTAG) to fix "bricked" devices.
  - gary_0 3y ago
    If you own a soldering iron, nothing is bricked until the magic smoke gets out!
- xnzakg 3y ago
  I would say it's soft-bricking, but not hard-bricking.
- icedchai 3y ago
  The average user is going to have a heck of a time fixing it. They may not have a spare Mac, or a friend with enough tech know-how to help them. It is effectively bricked since they'd have to go to an Apple Store.
- tambourine_man 3y ago
  From the horse's mouth: https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/111337509620995637 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/111337509620995637 There are often arguments about what is "bricking" when these things happen, so here's my take (having dealt with embedded device ecosystems for a decade+): "Bricking" is when a device is put into a state that can only be recovered from by using specialized repair/recovery tools, opening up the case (for non user-serviceable devices), or software not legitimately available to the public. Apple Silicon devices are mostly "unbrickable" because you can always recover using DFU mode. In fact they are probably the most unbrickable consumer computing devices in existence, due to how thoroughly a DFU wipe restores everything (not just all software, but even device calibration and settings get downloaded from a server). DFU wipe is documented, relatively user-friendly, and requires only publicly available software and another Mac, which makes these unbootable states not a "brick". In contrast, most PCs are brickable: just wipe or corrupt the BIOS Flash. Most of the time this isn't super easy to do, but it's rarely fully protected and there have been many instances of something as simple as setting UEFI variables wrong bricking x86 machines. The exception here is x86 motherboards with a "BIOS FlashBack" type low-level recovery feature, which is as close as you get to DFU mode in the x86 world. Most Android devices are brickable too, and very easily at that. Just deleting/corrupting the wrong partition on disk will make your device unrecoverable. While in principle they have DFU-like recovery modes, the tools to use them are almost never made available to the public (you need vendor-specific tools, fastboot won't work) nor are they intended for use by end-users, which makes this qualify as a "brick". There is also no mechanism to recover calibration data like Apple has. There is, however, a tangential aspect: data loss. Any mention of bootability issues should qualify whether the fix makes you lose all your data or not. For example, on Apple Silicon, deleting the first partition on the disk is a very quick way to end up with an unbootable device where the fix requires a full wipe and losing all your data, even though it's not a "brick". For this reason, I would say Apple Silicon is much better than x86 at system recoverability, but is worse than x86 at data recoverability.
mitemte 3y ago
Speaking of bricking devices. One of Apple’s greatest shames was releasing Apple TV 4K, which lacks a USB port. This model could only be unbricked by Apple, until iOS 17 made it possible to do so via the iPhone recovery feature.

saagarjha 3y ago

Ok, let’s see your processes for shipping an update to a hundred million devices.

cromka 3y ago
This wasn’t an issue in their rollout process, but in their QA that needs to test orders of magnitude less setups.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  Presumably they'd need to test more? Because I assume that whatever they tested passed QA and didn't include what Asahi is reporting.
- s3p 3y ago
  Semantics. Seems to me like OP was talking about the entire project of making and releasing the newest version. QA would most definitely be apart of that.
azinman2 3y ago
*billion
- saagarjha 3y ago
  Definitely not that many Macs in use
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
troupo 3y ago
Not do yearly release cycles.

tambourine_man 3y ago

It’s not bricking.

robocat 3y ago
By that definition, neither is bricking bricking. You can often use technical solutions (e.g. JTAG) to fix "bricked" devices.
- gary_0 3y ago
  If you own a soldering iron, nothing is bricked until the magic smoke gets out!
xnzakg 3y ago
I would say it's soft-bricking, but not hard-bricking.
icedchai 3y ago
The average user is going to have a heck of a time fixing it. They may not have a spare Mac, or a friend with enough tech know-how to help them. It is effectively bricked since they'd have to go to an Apple Store.
tambourine_man 3y ago
From the horse's mouth: https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/111337509620995637 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/111337509620995637 There are often arguments about what is "bricking" when these things happen, so here's my take (having dealt with embedded device ecosystems for a decade+): "Bricking" is when a device is put into a state that can only be recovered from by using specialized repair/recovery tools, opening up the case (for non user-serviceable devices), or software not legitimately available to the public. Apple Silicon devices are mostly "unbrickable" because you can always recover using DFU mode. In fact they are probably the most unbrickable consumer computing devices in existence, due to how thoroughly a DFU wipe restores everything (not just all software, but even device calibration and settings get downloaded from a server). DFU wipe is documented, relatively user-friendly, and requires only publicly available software and another Mac, which makes these unbootable states not a "brick". In contrast, most PCs are brickable: just wipe or corrupt the BIOS Flash. Most of the time this isn't super easy to do, but it's rarely fully protected and there have been many instances of something as simple as setting UEFI variables wrong bricking x86 machines. The exception here is x86 motherboards with a "BIOS FlashBack" type low-level recovery feature, which is as close as you get to DFU mode in the x86 world. Most Android devices are brickable too, and very easily at that. Just deleting/corrupting the wrong partition on disk will make your device unrecoverable. While in principle they have DFU-like recovery modes, the tools to use them are almost never made available to the public (you need vendor-specific tools, fastboot won't work) nor are they intended for use by end-users, which makes this qualify as a "brick". There is also no mechanism to recover calibration data like Apple has. There is, however, a tangential aspect: data loss. Any mention of bootability issues should qualify whether the fix makes you lose all your data or not. For example, on Apple Silicon, deleting the first partition on the disk is a very quick way to end up with an unbootable device where the fix requires a full wipe and losing all your data, even though it's not a "brick". For this reason, I would say Apple Silicon is much better than x86 at system recoverability, but is worse than x86 at data recoverability.

mitemte 3y ago

Speaking of bricking devices. One of Apple’s greatest shames was releasing Apple TV 4K, which lacks a USB port. This model could only be unbricked by Apple, until iOS 17 made it possible to do so via the iPhone recovery feature.