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Apparently it only cost Oyvind $2,630 including installation? I'd do that tomorrow if that were the case. I'd love a heat pump with a gas backup when we got o

Apparently it only cost Oyvind $2,630 including installation? I'd do that tomorrow if that were the case. I'd love a heat pump with a gas backup when we got our week or two of < -30C.

xxpor 3y ago
Seriously. I'd be screaming from the rooftops for everyone to get one.
amalcon 3y ago
> The state now subsidizes heat pumps, which in 2022 were used in just three percent of homes, and sales are beginning to take off. That's probably not the only reason for the difference, but it is probably one reason.
- NorwegianDude 3y ago
  That's not a part of the reason. Air-air heat pumps, exhaust air heat pumps and air-water heat pumps is so common that they are excluded. Only new and emerging tech on the market are subsidized. When adoption increases they remove it as the goal is to decrease cost of newer and less common methods.
einr 3y ago
Apparently it only cost Oyvind $2,630 including installation? Beware that the article is not very clear and talks about "heat pumps" as a general concept when the term actually encompasses a bunch of different and very differently priced things. What Øyvind gets for $2,630 including installation is a wall-mounted air-to-air heat pump like this one: https://www.polarpumpen.se/varmepumpar/luftvarmepump/mitsubishi-electric-hero-20-ln25-luftvarmepump/p-1547702 https://www.polarpumpen.se/varmepumpar/luftvarmepump/mitsubi... Something like this will be great for heating a single large room, a small house with an open floor plan, or a secondary space like a garage, but is not a system that will handle an entire normal-sized house. But yes, you can get it for $2,630 including installation and it is very efficient at what it does.
OldSchool 3y ago
The HVAC industry in the US enjoys massive gross margins on this equipment. Prices are supported primarily by licensing laws. You can't legally break into the business, but DIY on your own house is entirely possible: the equipment is available for 1/4 to 1/3 of the "installed" price and some of the more climate-friendly refrigerants do not require an EPA license to purchase. Yes, the work involves electrical, light plumbing and welding, a specialized tool or two, attention to detail, and definitely physical labor, but for a lot of engineers that's just fun stuff to do on a weekend - really fun stuff when you save over $10K per installed system (at the 3-5 ton unit capacity level.)
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  Not just electrical, 240 V electrical and a possible 200 Amp service upgrade. The really fun "it'll kill you dead" electrical.
  - OldSchool 3y ago
    The 240V electrical isn’t as scary as it sounds; individually, the hots are no more “hot” relative to ground than a 120V hot (still demands respect!) Certainly it’s not for everyone or even every engineer but I guess my point was that if you’ve already done most of these things yourself it’s not a huge leap to DIY your own HVAC install compared to the financial incentive, especially if your house has more than one system.
  - cogman10 3y ago
    120V will kill you dead, so will 60V.
    - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
      True.
    - sidewndr46 3y ago
      so will 12 volts if conducted through your heart in the right place
erikprotagonist 3y ago
Checking the prices here in Norway a Mitsubishi Uwano 8700 (Mitsubishi's most high-end model) costs 2700 USD before any government rebates. It guaranteed to work down to -30C, but has been tested down to -36C as well. At -25C it produce 6000W. The "SCOP" value of the Mitsubishi is 5.2, so over the heating season it should produce 5.2x as much heat as you otherwise would get for the same amount of electricity. Most of the heatpumps available are about 1200USD cheaper, but only go down to -25C, which really is plenty where most people live (not too far from the coast). Installation typically costs around 600-900USD it seems. Given our 25% sales tax and high wages it should be considerably cheaper in the US.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  Ah, that's a single room heater, not a whole house, eh?
  - bjornasm 3y ago
    It has a max capacity of 8700W, if that is just enough to heat a single room you have to look into insulating house better.
    - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
      Well, our whole house needs about 70,000 BTU, which is ~20,000 W or 10,000 W (assuming it's still 2x efficient) input at -35 C, but our basement and second floor won't care if the living room is the only area getting heat.
  - mitthrowaway2 3y ago
    What makes you think it's a single room heater? It looks like a mini-split system to me.

Apparently it only cost Oyvind $2,630 including installation? I'd do that tomorrow if that were the case. I'd love a heat pump with a gas backup when we got our week or two of < -30C.

xxpor 3y ago

Seriously. I'd be screaming from the rooftops for everyone to get one.

amalcon 3y ago

> The state now subsidizes heat pumps, which in 2022 were used in just three percent of homes, and sales are beginning to take off. That's probably not the only reason for the difference, but it is probably one reason.

NorwegianDude 3y ago
That's not a part of the reason. Air-air heat pumps, exhaust air heat pumps and air-water heat pumps is so common that they are excluded. Only new and emerging tech on the market are subsidized. When adoption increases they remove it as the goal is to decrease cost of newer and less common methods.

einr 3y ago

Apparently it only cost Oyvind $2,630 including installation? Beware that the article is not very clear and talks about "heat pumps" as a general concept when the term actually encompasses a bunch of different and very differently priced things. What Øyvind gets for $2,630 including installation is a wall-mounted air-to-air heat pump like this one: https://www.polarpumpen.se/varmepumpar/luftvarmepump/mitsubishi-electric-hero-20-ln25-luftvarmepump/p-1547702 https://www.polarpumpen.se/varmepumpar/luftvarmepump/mitsubi... Something like this will be great for heating a single large room, a small house with an open floor plan, or a secondary space like a garage, but is not a system that will handle an entire normal-sized house. But yes, you can get it for $2,630 including installation and it is very efficient at what it does.

OldSchool 3y ago

The HVAC industry in the US enjoys massive gross margins on this equipment. Prices are supported primarily by licensing laws. You can't legally break into the business, but DIY on your own house is entirely possible: the equipment is available for 1/4 to 1/3 of the "installed" price and some of the more climate-friendly refrigerants do not require an EPA license to purchase. Yes, the work involves electrical, light plumbing and welding, a specialized tool or two, attention to detail, and definitely physical labor, but for a lot of engineers that's just fun stuff to do on a weekend - really fun stuff when you save over $10K per installed system (at the 3-5 ton unit capacity level.)

SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
Not just electrical, 240 V electrical and a possible 200 Amp service upgrade. The really fun "it'll kill you dead" electrical.
- OldSchool 3y ago
  The 240V electrical isn’t as scary as it sounds; individually, the hots are no more “hot” relative to ground than a 120V hot (still demands respect!) Certainly it’s not for everyone or even every engineer but I guess my point was that if you’ve already done most of these things yourself it’s not a huge leap to DIY your own HVAC install compared to the financial incentive, especially if your house has more than one system.
- cogman10 3y ago
  120V will kill you dead, so will 60V.
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    True.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    so will 12 volts if conducted through your heart in the right place

erikprotagonist 3y ago

Checking the prices here in Norway a Mitsubishi Uwano 8700 (Mitsubishi's most high-end model) costs 2700 USD before any government rebates. It guaranteed to work down to -30C, but has been tested down to -36C as well. At -25C it produce 6000W. The "SCOP" value of the Mitsubishi is 5.2, so over the heating season it should produce 5.2x as much heat as you otherwise would get for the same amount of electricity. Most of the heatpumps available are about 1200USD cheaper, but only go down to -25C, which really is plenty where most people live (not too far from the coast). Installation typically costs around 600-900USD it seems. Given our 25% sales tax and high wages it should be considerably cheaper in the US.

SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
Ah, that's a single room heater, not a whole house, eh?
- bjornasm 3y ago
  It has a max capacity of 8700W, if that is just enough to heat a single room you have to look into insulating house better.
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    Well, our whole house needs about 70,000 BTU, which is ~20,000 W or 10,000 W (assuming it's still 2x efficient) input at -35 C, but our basement and second floor won't care if the living room is the only area getting heat.
- mitthrowaway2 3y ago
  What makes you think it's a single room heater? It looks like a mini-split system to me.