3 ms·

It isn't realistic at all, because that's not how federal sentencing guidelines work. If the crimes are similar, the judge is going to lump them together and p

It isn't realistic at all, because that's not how federal sentencing guidelines work. If the crimes are similar, the judge is going to lump them together and pick the longest sentence as the one to serve. The rest will be served concurrently.

perihelions 3y ago
I'm just reciting what commentators, like this former AUSA [0], are writing. Andrew McCarthy (linked) easily gets to the maximum offense level of 43. I'm not pretending to know how to apply these D&D rules myself. [edit]: And Braden Perry, a former CFTC lawyer, also agrees with the offense level of 43 [1]. They seem to do different calculations to get to that: McCarthy applies an enhancement for "organizer or leader of a criminal activity that involved five or more participants or was otherwise extensive", while Perry finds one for "having 25 or more victims". To be fair: they also both agree a court could deviate downwards, if they find mitigating factors. That seems to be a key variable here: how many downward adjustments can the defense convince the court to apply. [0] https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/01/federal-sentencing-guidelines-spell-deep-trouble-for-sam-bankman-fried/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/01/federal-sentencing-gu... ("Federal Sentencing Guidelines Spell Deep Trouble for Sam Bankman-Fried") [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/sam-bankman-fried-could-face-years-in-prison-over-ftx-meltdown.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/sam-bankman-fried-could-face... ("Sam Bankman-Fried could face years in prison over FTX's $32 billion meltdown — if the U.S. ever gets around to arresting him")
michaelt 3y ago
Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in prison, back in 2009 [1]. He died 12 years into the sentence, in 2021, so I suppose it's possible he'd have been released early due to factors like good behaviour? Still, three-digit sentences have been seen before, and not every white collar criminal gets off with a slap on the wrist, even if a great many of them do. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff#Plea,_sentencing,_and_prison_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff#Plea,_sentencing...
- vkou 3y ago
  Good behaviour can, at most, shave 15% of your federal sentence. The only way Bernie would have gotten out would have been with a pardon.
  - harambae 3y ago
    Technically Bernie could’ve gotten a 35(b) cooperation all the way to being released after a few years. Or even more unlikely he could have successfully appealed his sentence. Or gotten a commuted but not pardoned sentence. None of this happened but a pardon isn’t the only way.
gamblor956 3y ago
If the crimes are similar, the judge is going to lump them together and pick the longest sentence as the one to serve. The rest will be served concurrently. This depends on the nature and scope of the crime. If there is one major crime and a number of smaller supporting crimes, judges will usually pick the longest sentence and the other sentences are imposed concurrently, the theory being that the smaller crimes are really just dependent parts of carrying out the bigger crime. If there are several major crimes, judges will frequently impose consecutive sentences, especially if there is a series or pattern of major crimes. (For example, serial rapists, serial murderers, etc.) Generally, this is rare for white collar crimes, with the exception of standouts like Bernie Madoff (serial fraud). Scope-wise, SBF has Madoff beat. And while he doesn't have the same length of offending as Madoff, he did commit a series of major crimes. It is thus realistic that the judge would sentence SBF to consecutive sentences if he is convicted on all counts.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > This depends on the nature and scope of the crime. If there is one major crime and a number of smaller supporting crimes, judges will usually pick the longest sentence and the other sentences are imposed concurrently, the theory being that the smaller crimes are really just dependent parts of carrying out the bigger crime. That might be the theory in state cases, in federal cases following the Sentencing Guidelines, that often happens because if the total punishment calculated for the combination of offenses fits into a sentence available for the single crime with the maximum available punishment, the guidelines instruct that it be done that way (and, if not, they instruct that enough of the other sentences run consecutively to meet the calculated total punishment.) This rule works independently of the structure of multiple major offenses or one major and many minor offenses, although it may tend to produce results roughly in line w8th the dichotomy you propose.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> If the crimes are similar, the judge is going to lump them together and pick the longest sentence as the one to serve That's not how it works. The guidelines calculation is done based on all offenses, a total punishment is calculated, and “If the sentence imposed on the count carrying the highest statutory maximum is less than the total punishment, then the sentence imposed on one or more of the other counts shall run consecutively, but only to the extent necessary to produce a combined sentence equal to the total punishment.” US Sentencing Commission Guidelines Manual 2023, §5G1.2(d) https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2023-guidelines-manual/annotated-2023-chapter-5#5g12 https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2023-guidelines-manual/annot...

perihelions 3y ago

I'm just reciting what commentators, like this former AUSA [0], are writing. Andrew McCarthy (linked) easily gets to the maximum offense level of 43. I'm not pretending to know how to apply these D&D rules myself. [edit]: And Braden Perry, a former CFTC lawyer, also agrees with the offense level of 43 [1]. They seem to do different calculations to get to that: McCarthy applies an enhancement for "organizer or leader of a criminal activity that involved five or more participants or was otherwise extensive", while Perry finds one for "having 25 or more victims". To be fair: they also both agree a court could deviate downwards, if they find mitigating factors. That seems to be a key variable here: how many downward adjustments can the defense convince the court to apply. [0] https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/01/federal-sentencing-guidelines-spell-deep-trouble-for-sam-bankman-fried/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/01/federal-sentencing-gu... ("Federal Sentencing Guidelines Spell Deep Trouble for Sam Bankman-Fried") [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/sam-bankman-fried-could-face-years-in-prison-over-ftx-meltdown.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/sam-bankman-fried-could-face... ("Sam Bankman-Fried could face years in prison over FTX's $32 billion meltdown — if the U.S. ever gets around to arresting him")

michaelt 3y ago

Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in prison, back in 2009 [1]. He died 12 years into the sentence, in 2021, so I suppose it's possible he'd have been released early due to factors like good behaviour? Still, three-digit sentences have been seen before, and not every white collar criminal gets off with a slap on the wrist, even if a great many of them do. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff#Plea,_sentencing,_and_prison_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff#Plea,_sentencing...

vkou 3y ago
Good behaviour can, at most, shave 15% of your federal sentence. The only way Bernie would have gotten out would have been with a pardon.
- harambae 3y ago
  Technically Bernie could’ve gotten a 35(b) cooperation all the way to being released after a few years. Or even more unlikely he could have successfully appealed his sentence. Or gotten a commuted but not pardoned sentence. None of this happened but a pardon isn’t the only way.

gamblor956 3y ago

If the crimes are similar, the judge is going to lump them together and pick the longest sentence as the one to serve. The rest will be served concurrently. This depends on the nature and scope of the crime. If there is one major crime and a number of smaller supporting crimes, judges will usually pick the longest sentence and the other sentences are imposed concurrently, the theory being that the smaller crimes are really just dependent parts of carrying out the bigger crime. If there are several major crimes, judges will frequently impose consecutive sentences, especially if there is a series or pattern of major crimes. (For example, serial rapists, serial murderers, etc.) Generally, this is rare for white collar crimes, with the exception of standouts like Bernie Madoff (serial fraud). Scope-wise, SBF has Madoff beat. And while he doesn't have the same length of offending as Madoff, he did commit a series of major crimes. It is thus realistic that the judge would sentence SBF to consecutive sentences if he is convicted on all counts.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> This depends on the nature and scope of the crime. If there is one major crime and a number of smaller supporting crimes, judges will usually pick the longest sentence and the other sentences are imposed concurrently, the theory being that the smaller crimes are really just dependent parts of carrying out the bigger crime. That might be the theory in state cases, in federal cases following the Sentencing Guidelines, that often happens because if the total punishment calculated for the combination of offenses fits into a sentence available for the single crime with the maximum available punishment, the guidelines instruct that it be done that way (and, if not, they instruct that enough of the other sentences run consecutively to meet the calculated total punishment.) This rule works independently of the structure of multiple major offenses or one major and many minor offenses, although it may tend to produce results roughly in line w8th the dichotomy you propose.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> If the crimes are similar, the judge is going to lump them together and pick the longest sentence as the one to serve That's not how it works. The guidelines calculation is done based on all offenses, a total punishment is calculated, and “If the sentence imposed on the count carrying the highest statutory maximum is less than the total punishment, then the sentence imposed on one or more of the other counts shall run consecutively, but only to the extent necessary to produce a combined sentence equal to the total punishment.” US Sentencing Commission Guidelines Manual 2023, §5G1.2(d) https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2023-guidelines-manual/annotated-2023-chapter-5#5g12 https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2023-guidelines-manual/annot...