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The coffee shop analogy falls apart after a few seconds because tracking in real life does not scale the same way that tracking in the digital space scales. If

The coffee shop analogy falls apart after a few seconds because tracking in real life does not scale the same way that tracking in the digital space scales. If you wanted to track movements in a coffee shop as detailed as you can on websites or applications with heavy tracking, you would need to have a dozen people with clipboards strewn about the place, at which point it would feel justifiably dystopian. The only difference on a website is that the clipboard-bearing surveillers are not as readily apparent.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
> you would need to have a dozen people with clipboards strewn about the place Assuming you live in the US, next time you're in a grocery store, count how many cameras you can spot. Then consider: these cameras could possibly have facial recognition software; these cameras could possibly have object recognition software; these cameras could possibly have software that tracks eye movements to see where people are looking. Then wonder: do they have cameras in the parking lot? Maybe those cameras can read license plates to know which vehicles are coming and going. Any time I see any sort of news about information that can be retrieved from a photo, I assume that it will be done by many cameras at >1 Hertz in a handful of years.
- majewsky 3y ago
  I'm in Germany, so even if those places have cameras, they need to post a privacy notice describing what they do and how long they retain data. Sure, most people will not read this, but it's out there. I will make a mental note to read these privacy notices more often from now.
arp242 3y ago
I don't think it's very important that people "can" do this; the only thing that matters if they actually "are" doing it.
al_borland 3y ago
I think that's the point. It's the level of detail of tracking online that's the problem. If a website just wants to know someone showed up, that's one thing. If a site wants to know that I specifically showed up, and dig in to find out who I specifically am, and what I'm into so they can target me... that's too much. Current website tracking is like the coffee shop owner hiring a private investigate to dig into the personal lives of everyone who walks in the door so they can suggest the right coffee and custom cup without having to ask. They could not do that and just let someone pick their own cup... or give them a generic one. I'd like that better. If clipboards in coffee shops are dystopian, so is current web tracking, and we should feel the same about it. I think Bear strikes a good balance. It lets authors know someone is reading, but it's not keeping profiles on users to target them with manipulative advertising or some kind of curated reading list.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago

> you would need to have a dozen people with clipboards strewn about the place Assuming you live in the US, next time you're in a grocery store, count how many cameras you can spot. Then consider: these cameras could possibly have facial recognition software; these cameras could possibly have object recognition software; these cameras could possibly have software that tracks eye movements to see where people are looking. Then wonder: do they have cameras in the parking lot? Maybe those cameras can read license plates to know which vehicles are coming and going. Any time I see any sort of news about information that can be retrieved from a photo, I assume that it will be done by many cameras at >1 Hertz in a handful of years.

majewsky 3y ago
I'm in Germany, so even if those places have cameras, they need to post a privacy notice describing what they do and how long they retain data. Sure, most people will not read this, but it's out there. I will make a mental note to read these privacy notices more often from now.

arp242 3y ago

I don't think it's very important that people "can" do this; the only thing that matters if they actually "are" doing it.

al_borland 3y ago

I think that's the point. It's the level of detail of tracking online that's the problem. If a website just wants to know someone showed up, that's one thing. If a site wants to know that I specifically showed up, and dig in to find out who I specifically am, and what I'm into so they can target me... that's too much. Current website tracking is like the coffee shop owner hiring a private investigate to dig into the personal lives of everyone who walks in the door so they can suggest the right coffee and custom cup without having to ask. They could not do that and just let someone pick their own cup... or give them a generic one. I'd like that better. If clipboards in coffee shops are dystopian, so is current web tracking, and we should feel the same about it. I think Bear strikes a good balance. It lets authors know someone is reading, but it's not keeping profiles on users to target them with manipulative advertising or some kind of curated reading list.