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Also, I just realized "Bref" is its own project that lets you run PHP on serverless Lambdas... like a Google Cloud Run on Amazon? Is this really such a big nic

Also, I just realized "Bref" is its own project that lets you run PHP on serverless Lambdas... like a Google Cloud Run on Amazon? Is this really such a big niche? It's weird to me to you'd want to use PHP for something like this (and I love PHP, it just doesn't strike me as the best tool for serverless).

deleugpn 3y ago
As you can see on the website (https://bref.sh/ https://bref.sh/) there's 13 billion monthly AWS Lambda invocations using Bref (PHP).
- solardev 3y ago
  That doesn't really say much. Isn't the whole point of serverless to support high-volume, individually-inexpensive, invocations? For context, 13B is like roughly a <strike>$2000</strike> (edit: more like $4000, sorry) spend on Cloudflare Workers, similar cost (harder to calculate but ballpark similar) on Lambda. That could be a single company spending the bulk of that. (Further edit: Lambda pricing is way off too. See reply below.)
  - deleugpn 3y ago
    That ballpark is not even close to the park. My company spends ~$500/month on AWS Lambda and we're doing about 2M/req/day with Bref. There's still 12B 940M requests to account for
    - solardev 3y ago
      Thank you, and sorry about that! How come Lambda is so expensive for you? At 13000M invocations/mo, that's $2600 in requests. Is it the GB-seconds duration charge that get you?
      - deleugpn 3y ago
        The GB-second is the relevant cost of AWS Lambda. # of invocations is pretty irrelevant. 60'000'000 requests 1536MB RAM 300ms response avg (calculation includes free tier): Request costs: $11.80/month Execution costs: $443.42/month Total AWS Lambda costs: $455.22/month
        solardev 3y ago
        I see, thank you for the explanation! Sorry for my mistaken assumptions.
mnapoli 3y ago
PHP is great for serverless because its execution model is compatible with it. Unlike Node, Python, Java, etc. that start a long-lived server, each request is handled by PHP in a separate process. That's what makes it really to use with serverless (and lift-and-shift, like what Treezor did).
- solardev 3y ago
  Does that really matter when JS can be isolated in V8? Comparing Bref (https://bref.sh/docs#maturity-matrix https://bref.sh/docs#maturity-matrix) which inherits Lambda's 200ms+ cold starts vs Cloudflare's 5ms (https://blog.cloudflare.com/eliminating-cold-starts-with-cloudflare-workers/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/eliminating-cold-starts-with-clo...), for example, is a pretty big difference. But I guess if performance isn't a critical use (or you just have so many invocations all the time in every data center that cold start isn't an issue), it's nice to be able to ~port~ copy and paste over your existing PHP code.

deleugpn 3y ago

As you can see on the website (https://bref.sh/ https://bref.sh/) there's 13 billion monthly AWS Lambda invocations using Bref (PHP).

solardev 3y ago
That doesn't really say much. Isn't the whole point of serverless to support high-volume, individually-inexpensive, invocations? For context, 13B is like roughly a <strike>$2000</strike> (edit: more like $4000, sorry) spend on Cloudflare Workers, similar cost (harder to calculate but ballpark similar) on Lambda. That could be a single company spending the bulk of that. (Further edit: Lambda pricing is way off too. See reply below.)
- deleugpn 3y ago
  That ballpark is not even close to the park. My company spends ~$500/month on AWS Lambda and we're doing about 2M/req/day with Bref. There's still 12B 940M requests to account for
  - solardev 3y ago
    Thank you, and sorry about that! How come Lambda is so expensive for you? At 13000M invocations/mo, that's $2600 in requests. Is it the GB-seconds duration charge that get you?
    - deleugpn 3y ago
      The GB-second is the relevant cost of AWS Lambda. # of invocations is pretty irrelevant. 60'000'000 requests 1536MB RAM 300ms response avg (calculation includes free tier): Request costs: $11.80/month Execution costs: $443.42/month Total AWS Lambda costs: $455.22/month
      - solardev 3y ago
        I see, thank you for the explanation! Sorry for my mistaken assumptions.

mnapoli 3y ago

PHP is great for serverless because its execution model is compatible with it. Unlike Node, Python, Java, etc. that start a long-lived server, each request is handled by PHP in a separate process. That's what makes it really to use with serverless (and lift-and-shift, like what Treezor did).

solardev 3y ago
Does that really matter when JS can be isolated in V8? Comparing Bref (https://bref.sh/docs#maturity-matrix https://bref.sh/docs#maturity-matrix) which inherits Lambda's 200ms+ cold starts vs Cloudflare's 5ms (https://blog.cloudflare.com/eliminating-cold-starts-with-cloudflare-workers/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/eliminating-cold-starts-with-clo...), for example, is a pretty big difference. But I guess if performance isn't a critical use (or you just have so many invocations all the time in every data center that cold start isn't an issue), it's nice to be able to ~port~ copy and paste over your existing PHP code.