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Cashless is simply too convenient to be beaten by "you shouldn't do this" arguments. Unfortunate but true. I am not an expert at this by any means, but one ide

Cashless is simply too convenient to be beaten by "you shouldn't do this" arguments. Unfortunate but true. I am not an expert at this by any means, but one idea I've had is for smartphones / a "credit chip" to have preloaded cash on to it, which is then used to make purchases without sending that information back to your bank account. So, for example: you make a $100 deposit from your bank account to your smartphone. You can then make purchases from your smartphone, not from your card. The purchasing data stays local to your device.

balderdash 3y ago
This seems like it would need to be independent of the card networks as well?
- keiferski 3y ago
  The data would need to stay local to your phone, otherwise this wouldn't prevent tracking from card networks, etc. You could add cash to your phone via a card, but the only record would be the raw amount, not what you're spending the money on. (In other words, exactly the same as taking cash from an ATM.)
  - ghaff 3y ago
    What happens if your phone breaks?
    - keiferski 3y ago
      It occurs to me now that what I'm proposing is not drastically different from how crypto works. In which case, there may be some way to back up the phone elsewhere, or maybe not – we don't have a backup for cash and if you lose it, too bad. Keep your transfer amounts small enough that it won't be a disaster if you lose the phone.
seabass-labrax 3y ago
Tentatively, I would say that is 'easy'. Easy because the necessary smart card technology has existed for decades, and because almost every smartphone now retailing includes Near-Field Communication features and smart card chips already. Although early smart cards had some security flaws (as would be expected in the early days of widespread civilian encryption), these no longer apply to modern smart cards. I bought a day pass for the Brussels city transport system at a ticket machine last month, and the machine simply loaded and dispensed a smart card for me to use immediately on any bus, tram or train. This shows that smart cards are not only cheap, they can be literally disposable! Therefore I would say that is 100% a policy issue: all it would take is one country or large city to implement digital cash with the legal and functional constructs to ensure anonymous transactions and your dream would come true.
piperswe 3y ago
That's essentially how smartphone IC cards work in Japan. You can load the virtual card using a credit/debit card, and spend it (offline, I think) at train stations and many shops. You can also get a regular plastic IC card, and load it with cash or card. Works the same way, except you can only load it at a machine rather than just on the Wallet app on your phone.

balderdash 3y ago

This seems like it would need to be independent of the card networks as well?

keiferski 3y ago
The data would need to stay local to your phone, otherwise this wouldn't prevent tracking from card networks, etc. You could add cash to your phone via a card, but the only record would be the raw amount, not what you're spending the money on. (In other words, exactly the same as taking cash from an ATM.)
- ghaff 3y ago
  What happens if your phone breaks?
  - keiferski 3y ago
    It occurs to me now that what I'm proposing is not drastically different from how crypto works. In which case, there may be some way to back up the phone elsewhere, or maybe not – we don't have a backup for cash and if you lose it, too bad. Keep your transfer amounts small enough that it won't be a disaster if you lose the phone.

seabass-labrax 3y ago

Tentatively, I would say that is 'easy'. Easy because the necessary smart card technology has existed for decades, and because almost every smartphone now retailing includes Near-Field Communication features and smart card chips already. Although early smart cards had some security flaws (as would be expected in the early days of widespread civilian encryption), these no longer apply to modern smart cards. I bought a day pass for the Brussels city transport system at a ticket machine last month, and the machine simply loaded and dispensed a smart card for me to use immediately on any bus, tram or train. This shows that smart cards are not only cheap, they can be literally disposable! Therefore I would say that is 100% a policy issue: all it would take is one country or large city to implement digital cash with the legal and functional constructs to ensure anonymous transactions and your dream would come true.

piperswe 3y ago

That's essentially how smartphone IC cards work in Japan. You can load the virtual card using a credit/debit card, and spend it (offline, I think) at train stations and many shops. You can also get a regular plastic IC card, and load it with cash or card. Works the same way, except you can only load it at a machine rather than just on the Wallet app on your phone.