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Millions are protected to die simply due to lack of access to medical care. The doctors would have to be actively malicious to be worse than the alternative of

Millions are protected to die simply due to lack of access to medical care. The doctors would have to be actively malicious to be worse than the alternative of no doctor.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> doctors would have to be actively malicious to be worse than the alternative of no doctor There is so much low-hanging fruit to pick before we create a two-class medical system. Also, “millions” is hyperbole. It’s tens of thousands a year [1]. Two million or so in a lifetime. But half as many as from alcohol [2]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323087/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323087/ [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm
- willcipriano 3y ago
  Feel free to at any point in the last twenty years. It wasn't done so now drastic action is required to save lives.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > now drastic action is required to save lives You realise it’s this sort of rhetoric that inhibits moderate progress? If I wanted to kill a residency expansion proposal, and a lawmaker were saying we should let doctors trained in the worst medical systems in the world treat poor Americans, I would run that framing on billboards.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      I've been hearing that for twenty years. #ForceTheVote most recently. Drug reimportation under Trump. The public option with Obama. It's never the right time.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > been hearing that for twenty years That extremist policy positions backfire? Yes. Because it’s consistently true. See: defund the police and abortion. What you’re suggesting is lower impact and still more radical than a public option or drug price regulation.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        If it's extremist to say "hey we shouldn't spend at least twice as much for healthcare for no reason" then burn it all to ashes, nothing of value remains.
- robocat 3y ago
  > From link: although some studies stated that people aged 25 to 64 were 25% more likely to die if they lacked health insurance, the risk of death was probably higher because uninsured people are less healthy than insured people. The interesting point is that the early deaths are mostly due to selection - people that can't get insurance are more likely to die early e.g. lifestyle choices. Giving them access to the medical system might not help as much as we might hope. > Upthread: willcipriano said: Millions are pro[j]ected to die simply due to lack of access to medical care. No. The risk of death is 100%. People can die earlier than otherwise due to lack of medical access - or better said we can delay death but it usually gets harder and harder to delay as we accumulate chronic health conditions. And some people avoid chronic conditions better than others. Aside: Meanwhile the richer your country, the more you can take the best doctors and nurses from the poorer countries. New Zealand trains a lot of great doctors and nurses for the USA. And we take a lot from other countries too.

Millions are protected to die simply due to lack of access to medical care. The doctors would have to be actively malicious to be worse than the alternative of no doctor.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> doctors would have to be actively malicious to be worse than the alternative of no doctor There is so much low-hanging fruit to pick before we create a two-class medical system. Also, “millions” is hyperbole. It’s tens of thousands a year [1]. Two million or so in a lifetime. But half as many as from alcohol [2]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323087/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323087/ [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

willcipriano 3y ago
Feel free to at any point in the last twenty years. It wasn't done so now drastic action is required to save lives.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > now drastic action is required to save lives You realise it’s this sort of rhetoric that inhibits moderate progress? If I wanted to kill a residency expansion proposal, and a lawmaker were saying we should let doctors trained in the worst medical systems in the world treat poor Americans, I would run that framing on billboards.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    I've been hearing that for twenty years. #ForceTheVote most recently. Drug reimportation under Trump. The public option with Obama. It's never the right time.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > been hearing that for twenty years That extremist policy positions backfire? Yes. Because it’s consistently true. See: defund the police and abortion. What you’re suggesting is lower impact and still more radical than a public option or drug price regulation.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        If it's extremist to say "hey we shouldn't spend at least twice as much for healthcare for no reason" then burn it all to ashes, nothing of value remains.
robocat 3y ago
> From link: although some studies stated that people aged 25 to 64 were 25% more likely to die if they lacked health insurance, the risk of death was probably higher because uninsured people are less healthy than insured people. The interesting point is that the early deaths are mostly due to selection - people that can't get insurance are more likely to die early e.g. lifestyle choices. Giving them access to the medical system might not help as much as we might hope. > Upthread: willcipriano said: Millions are pro[j]ected to die simply due to lack of access to medical care. No. The risk of death is 100%. People can die earlier than otherwise due to lack of medical access - or better said we can delay death but it usually gets harder and harder to delay as we accumulate chronic health conditions. And some people avoid chronic conditions better than others. Aside: Meanwhile the richer your country, the more you can take the best doctors and nurses from the poorer countries. New Zealand trains a lot of great doctors and nurses for the USA. And we take a lot from other countries too.