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I always find it funny when people say that we'd have less doctors under 'socialized medicine'. This article clearly shows that other countries have more docto

I always find it funny when people say that we'd have less doctors under 'socialized medicine'. This article clearly shows that other countries have more doctors per capita. Not only that, but by and large those doctors are happier working under that system than our doctors are working under ours https://image.slideserve.com/488686/physician-satisfaction-with-practicing-medicine-l.jpg https://image.slideserve.com/488686/physician-satisfaction-w... My guess is that not dealing with a mercurial insurance industrial complex that tries to constantly deny medically necessary treatment to your patients makes your day to day work more enjoyable.

EricRiese 3y ago
Cuba is out here with probably the most socialist system and the most doctors per capita.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  When I use the word 'socialized medicine' I'm referring to a system of universal healthcare, not communist authoritarianism. It irritates me to no end that the two are conflated.
  - neaden 3y ago
    For the sake of clarity I think reserving the term socialized medicine for situations where the government is the one providing service such as in the UK and not when the government is providing funding such as Canada. There is also universal healthcare systems like Singapore that still provide a strong private component.
    - dukeyukey 3y ago
      Although even that's contentious - in the UK GPs, pharmacies, dentists, and most other frontline medical jobs are privately owned and run. Only really hospitals are government-operated, and even then there are private hospitals, insurance, and healthcare.
  - buzzert 3y ago
    I believe it's because "universal healthcare" is so non-political, it's basically meaningless in the context of this conversation. Universal healthcare just means "everyone has access to healthcare". Well, 92.1%[0] of Americans have health insurance, and close to 100% of Californians have health insurance with a public option[1]. The city of San Francisco even adds coverage[2] on top of what California and federal programs can offer, which basically means everyone has access to healthcare, even those 400% over the federal poverty line. Oh, and there are more people in the state of California than all of Canada, which is especially interesting when Canada's system enters the debate. [0]: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-281.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-28... [1]: https://www.coveredca.com/health/medi-cal/ https://www.coveredca.com/health/medi-cal/ [2]: https://healthysanfrancisco.org/ https://healthysanfrancisco.org/
  - amw 3y ago
    There is more authoritarianism in your life in the US than there is for the average person in Cuba. I know it's hard to believe, but it turns out spending almost half your waking hours selling your labor for a wage to a much richer person than you doesn't actually end up with a life defined by agency. Cuba isn't poor because of an inefficient command economy. Cuba is poor because it has been denied access to its largest trading partner (and more) for over half a century. And people _still_ have a better healthy life expectancy in that country than in the US. Imagine what it could be like there if the US did more than pay lip service to world prosperity and peace.
- neaden 3y ago
  Cuba is a weird case though where doctors are essentially one of their most important exports where they send them to other countries, primarily in Latin America.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  Cuba leases theirs into medical slavery. Not sure that's a model we want to imitate.
  - amw 3y ago
    They don't, this is a lie from the country that's been embargoing Cuba into oblivion for sixty years.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
      It's not a lie. It's well-documented, and happens outside of the bubble in which Cuba can keep its slavery quiet. "Host" nations agree to pay Cuba for the doctor's work, agree not to pay the doctor directly, and agree to deport them back to Cuba if they attempt to negotiate being paid directly. This is slavery by anyone's definition.
      - bensecure 3y ago
        Sounds like agency work with a visa thrown in. The doctor is ultimately paid by cuba, no?
        NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
        The slave is ultimately fed by the slaveowner, eh?
bequanna 3y ago
Socialized medicine has nothing to do with this problem. You can squarely place the blame on the AMA who (proudly) lobbied for years to cap Federal funding for medical Dr education and residency.
- Sebguer 3y ago
  The AMA is a leading reason that we don't have socialized medicine, though. They were one of the largest bodies that opposed single-payer for Obamacare.
robk 3y ago
They're certainly not happy in Britain!

EricRiese 3y ago

Cuba is out here with probably the most socialist system and the most doctors per capita.

wing-_-nuts 3y ago
When I use the word 'socialized medicine' I'm referring to a system of universal healthcare, not communist authoritarianism. It irritates me to no end that the two are conflated.
- neaden 3y ago
  For the sake of clarity I think reserving the term socialized medicine for situations where the government is the one providing service such as in the UK and not when the government is providing funding such as Canada. There is also universal healthcare systems like Singapore that still provide a strong private component.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    Although even that's contentious - in the UK GPs, pharmacies, dentists, and most other frontline medical jobs are privately owned and run. Only really hospitals are government-operated, and even then there are private hospitals, insurance, and healthcare.
- buzzert 3y ago
  I believe it's because "universal healthcare" is so non-political, it's basically meaningless in the context of this conversation. Universal healthcare just means "everyone has access to healthcare". Well, 92.1%[0] of Americans have health insurance, and close to 100% of Californians have health insurance with a public option[1]. The city of San Francisco even adds coverage[2] on top of what California and federal programs can offer, which basically means everyone has access to healthcare, even those 400% over the federal poverty line. Oh, and there are more people in the state of California than all of Canada, which is especially interesting when Canada's system enters the debate. [0]: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-281.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-28... [1]: https://www.coveredca.com/health/medi-cal/ https://www.coveredca.com/health/medi-cal/ [2]: https://healthysanfrancisco.org/ https://healthysanfrancisco.org/
- amw 3y ago
  There is more authoritarianism in your life in the US than there is for the average person in Cuba. I know it's hard to believe, but it turns out spending almost half your waking hours selling your labor for a wage to a much richer person than you doesn't actually end up with a life defined by agency. Cuba isn't poor because of an inefficient command economy. Cuba is poor because it has been denied access to its largest trading partner (and more) for over half a century. And people _still_ have a better healthy life expectancy in that country than in the US. Imagine what it could be like there if the US did more than pay lip service to world prosperity and peace.
neaden 3y ago
Cuba is a weird case though where doctors are essentially one of their most important exports where they send them to other countries, primarily in Latin America.
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
Cuba leases theirs into medical slavery. Not sure that's a model we want to imitate.
- amw 3y ago
  They don't, this is a lie from the country that's been embargoing Cuba into oblivion for sixty years.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    It's not a lie. It's well-documented, and happens outside of the bubble in which Cuba can keep its slavery quiet. "Host" nations agree to pay Cuba for the doctor's work, agree not to pay the doctor directly, and agree to deport them back to Cuba if they attempt to negotiate being paid directly. This is slavery by anyone's definition.
    - bensecure 3y ago
      Sounds like agency work with a visa thrown in. The doctor is ultimately paid by cuba, no?
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
        The slave is ultimately fed by the slaveowner, eh?

bequanna 3y ago

Socialized medicine has nothing to do with this problem. You can squarely place the blame on the AMA who (proudly) lobbied for years to cap Federal funding for medical Dr education and residency.

Sebguer 3y ago
The AMA is a leading reason that we don't have socialized medicine, though. They were one of the largest bodies that opposed single-payer for Obamacare.

robk 3y ago

They're certainly not happy in Britain!