5 ms·

North Korea allegedly shipped more than a million artillery shells to Russia

23 points by paulcarroty 3y ago

h2odragon 3y ago
That should make South Korea feel better, right? Or is there suspicion that the Norks feel they have replaced their artillery threat with something more effective, rendering those shells surplus? Definitely seems like a good time to be in the munitions industry.
- notact 3y ago
  Basically, according to this interesting analysis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoQCskvoIAY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoQCskvoIAY TL;DW: NK long relied on overwhelming artillery capability against Seoul as a deterrent against invasion. But nukes now fill that role, allowing the artillery stockpile to be used as a currency with Russia.
- n4r9 3y ago
  If I was in SK, I'd probably feel a little nervous to hear that NK is increasing trade with another highly developed country aligned against the West. Kim Jong Un wouldn't go for this unless he thought it would advance his global aims.
mikece 3y ago
If North Korea is manufacturing artillery shells, where are they getting the raw materials and capital to support the factories? (And how reliable is the labor pool in such a repressive state?) I'm guessing the Russians are saying "Uh, okay, thanks. (Hey Yuri: put those over in the corner with our factory rejects...)"
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  While the article claims that North Korea is manufacturing (and it probably is) the bulk of supply is probably old Soviet stockpile
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  The Norks got the resource-rich chunk of the peninsula. They absolutely could make these themselves, they have a huge free labor pool, and old Soviet stuff is well understood at this point. That they HAVE to is a good sign - means Russia's industrial base can't keep up with demand. Ukraine has been making progress lately, this may portend rapid progress soon.
  - mikece 3y ago
    > That they HAVE to is a good sign - means Russia's industrial base can't keep up with demand. I take that as a bad sign personally... makes me wonder how long it will be before "Oh no, we couldn't possibly use those!" becomes "Well, we have no other choice..." when it comes to the question of deploying tactical nukes.
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      There’s no evidence this is on their mind to do. The consequences would be severe (and no, not immediate global nuclear war).
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  Ah, no, Russia is desperate for artillery ammo. And there are reports that their own factory quality has gone down, too; they're already shooting stuff that should be "factory rejects". They'll take absolutely anything they can get.
- cheaprentalyeti 3y ago
  I have read in other places that North Korea gets the raw material and capital to do this from China, and that they're basically functioning as a means for China to launder its support for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
- jjk166 3y ago
  North Korea may be small, poor, and terribly mismanaged, but it is an industrialized nation state. In terms of purchasing power parity, it has roughly the same GDP (accounting for inflation) as Vichy France in 1943. While that's not something to brag about in 2023, it's certainly enough to produce munitions at scale. North Korea's extreme economic woes started only in the late 80s and early 90s as its benefactor and only significant trading partner, the Soviet Union, collapsed, and then it was hit by numerous rounds of intense international sanctions. Prior to this, North Korea built up a powerful artillery force and the industrial capacity to support it, and it has since sacrificed the well being of its populace to maintain that military capability. Indeed for producing cold war era soviet shells, North Korea might well have the most industrial capacity ready to go of any nation.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
All that slave labor fed on grazed grass building an arsenal that Russia will waste in a week. Totalitarianism is wack.
amai 3y ago
Ukraine is demilitarizing not only Russia but also North Korea and Iran. We should support Ukraine much more on their journey to demilitarize the evil parts of our planet.
simonblack 3y ago
And .........??? So what if it did? There's no difference between countries in the West shipping shit to Ukraine, and countries elsewhere shipping shit to Russia. Calm down and stop clutching at your pearls.

23 points by paulcarroty 3y ago

That should make South Korea feel better, right? Or is there suspicion that the Norks feel they have replaced their artillery threat with something more effective, rendering those shells surplus? Definitely seems like a good time to be in the munitions industry.

notact 3y ago
Basically, according to this interesting analysis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoQCskvoIAY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoQCskvoIAY TL;DW: NK long relied on overwhelming artillery capability against Seoul as a deterrent against invasion. But nukes now fill that role, allowing the artillery stockpile to be used as a currency with Russia.
n4r9 3y ago
If I was in SK, I'd probably feel a little nervous to hear that NK is increasing trade with another highly developed country aligned against the West. Kim Jong Un wouldn't go for this unless he thought it would advance his global aims.

mikece 3y ago

If North Korea is manufacturing artillery shells, where are they getting the raw materials and capital to support the factories? (And how reliable is the labor pool in such a repressive state?) I'm guessing the Russians are saying "Uh, okay, thanks. (Hey Yuri: put those over in the corner with our factory rejects...)"

jncfhnb 3y ago
While the article claims that North Korea is manufacturing (and it probably is) the bulk of supply is probably old Soviet stockpile
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
The Norks got the resource-rich chunk of the peninsula. They absolutely could make these themselves, they have a huge free labor pool, and old Soviet stuff is well understood at this point. That they HAVE to is a good sign - means Russia's industrial base can't keep up with demand. Ukraine has been making progress lately, this may portend rapid progress soon.
- mikece 3y ago
  > That they HAVE to is a good sign - means Russia's industrial base can't keep up with demand. I take that as a bad sign personally... makes me wonder how long it will be before "Oh no, we couldn't possibly use those!" becomes "Well, we have no other choice..." when it comes to the question of deploying tactical nukes.
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    There’s no evidence this is on their mind to do. The consequences would be severe (and no, not immediate global nuclear war).
andrewflnr 3y ago
Ah, no, Russia is desperate for artillery ammo. And there are reports that their own factory quality has gone down, too; they're already shooting stuff that should be "factory rejects". They'll take absolutely anything they can get.
cheaprentalyeti 3y ago
I have read in other places that North Korea gets the raw material and capital to do this from China, and that they're basically functioning as a means for China to launder its support for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
jjk166 3y ago
North Korea may be small, poor, and terribly mismanaged, but it is an industrialized nation state. In terms of purchasing power parity, it has roughly the same GDP (accounting for inflation) as Vichy France in 1943. While that's not something to brag about in 2023, it's certainly enough to produce munitions at scale. North Korea's extreme economic woes started only in the late 80s and early 90s as its benefactor and only significant trading partner, the Soviet Union, collapsed, and then it was hit by numerous rounds of intense international sanctions. Prior to this, North Korea built up a powerful artillery force and the industrial capacity to support it, and it has since sacrificed the well being of its populace to maintain that military capability. Indeed for producing cold war era soviet shells, North Korea might well have the most industrial capacity ready to go of any nation.

mensetmanusman 3y ago

All that slave labor fed on grazed grass building an arsenal that Russia will waste in a week. Totalitarianism is wack.

amai 3y ago

Ukraine is demilitarizing not only Russia but also North Korea and Iran. We should support Ukraine much more on their journey to demilitarize the evil parts of our planet.

simonblack 3y ago

And .........??? So what if it did? There's no difference between countries in the West shipping shit to Ukraine, and countries elsewhere shipping shit to Russia. Calm down and stop clutching at your pearls.