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The biggest issue is they aren't making anywhere near enough of them. Toyota argues that batteries are constrained and that for one EV they can make five PHEVs

The biggest issue is they aren't making anywhere near enough of them. Toyota argues that batteries are constrained and that for one EV they can make five PHEVs which will reduce emissions more than that one EV. It makes sense on paper and they have a wildly popular PHEV in the RAV4 Prime but they haven't even remotely scaled to meet demand, so it feels more like we are replacing one EV with one PHEV while the other four buyers go ICE or plain hybrid.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
Pricing is the other problem. The Prius Prime is more expensive than a Model 3, even before you factor in the $7500 tax credit and the inevitable Toyota dealer markup. The Prius Prime made a lot of sense when it was $10,000 cheaper than a model 3, but does it make as much sense when it's $10,000 more expensive than a base Model 3?
- hellisothers 3y ago
  If you want a PHEV it does, I don’t see myself in a full electric soon: single car family that goes on long adventures.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    I've done several 3000km trips in my Tesla. It works great with a family -- bathroom stops are longer than charging stops.
- enragedcacti 3y ago
  I agree that the pricing is too high, although I think the base model ends up only being ~$1000 higher than the base model 3 with a $7500 tax credit. Dealer markups are a huge problem but mostly stem from Toyota not producing enough to meet demand. I think there are a lot of people for whom the math works out on Toyota PHEVs at MSRP, they might be worried about range anxiety, they might travel a lot (56mpg at US prices generally costs less than super charging), they might not need a home charger because they can charge up at work, they want a super-reliable car they can drive into the ground, etc. but a lot of that is thrown out the window if you have to get on 10 waitlists, wait 6+ months, and pay $10k over sticker.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Model 3 base price is $39K without the tax credit, $31.5K with the tax credit. Prius Prime base price is $40K.
    - enragedcacti 3y ago
      I'm not really sure where you're getting that number. 2024 Prius Prime SE shows up as $32,675 for me on Toyota.com before $1,095 delivery fee for a total of $33,770 as seen here: https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/prius-prime https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/prius-prime M3 is $38,990 + $1,390 delivery fee, minus the tax credit comes to $32,880, or about $890 cheaper than the Prime. Come January 1st the M3 will be almost $3k more unless changes are made to the tax credit.
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        That's a really good question. I'm not sure where I got the price, and can't find it again. $40K is a bad price for a Prius Prime, so if it isn't I'm happy to be corrected.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

Pricing is the other problem. The Prius Prime is more expensive than a Model 3, even before you factor in the $7500 tax credit and the inevitable Toyota dealer markup. The Prius Prime made a lot of sense when it was $10,000 cheaper than a model 3, but does it make as much sense when it's $10,000 more expensive than a base Model 3?

hellisothers 3y ago
If you want a PHEV it does, I don’t see myself in a full electric soon: single car family that goes on long adventures.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  I've done several 3000km trips in my Tesla. It works great with a family -- bathroom stops are longer than charging stops.
enragedcacti 3y ago
I agree that the pricing is too high, although I think the base model ends up only being ~$1000 higher than the base model 3 with a $7500 tax credit. Dealer markups are a huge problem but mostly stem from Toyota not producing enough to meet demand. I think there are a lot of people for whom the math works out on Toyota PHEVs at MSRP, they might be worried about range anxiety, they might travel a lot (56mpg at US prices generally costs less than super charging), they might not need a home charger because they can charge up at work, they want a super-reliable car they can drive into the ground, etc. but a lot of that is thrown out the window if you have to get on 10 waitlists, wait 6+ months, and pay $10k over sticker.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Model 3 base price is $39K without the tax credit, $31.5K with the tax credit. Prius Prime base price is $40K.
  - enragedcacti 3y ago
    I'm not really sure where you're getting that number. 2024 Prius Prime SE shows up as $32,675 for me on Toyota.com before $1,095 delivery fee for a total of $33,770 as seen here: https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/prius-prime https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/prius-prime M3 is $38,990 + $1,390 delivery fee, minus the tax credit comes to $32,880, or about $890 cheaper than the Prime. Come January 1st the M3 will be almost $3k more unless changes are made to the tax credit.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      That's a really good question. I'm not sure where I got the price, and can't find it again. $40K is a bad price for a Prius Prime, so if it isn't I'm happy to be corrected.